Lesbian minister to appeal

Washington Times ^ | 12/27/04 | Richard N. Ostling, AP

[kattracks]

A Methodist minister who was defrocked for declaring that she is a lesbian living with her partner is taking her case to a church appeals court.
    The Rev. Irene Stroud, of Philadelphia, was ousted Dec. 2 for violating the United Methodist Church's law against "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" in the clergy.
    Ms. Stroud decided last week to appeal, but delayed the announcement until after Christmas weekend. Notice of appeal must be filed this week.

[snip]

She said one factor in her decision was something retired Bishop Joseph Yeakel, the judge who presided at her church trial, said to her after the verdict. Bishop Yeakel told Ms. Stroud "the day will come when the church apologizes for this decision."

[snip]

The case originated last year when Ms. Stroud announced her same-sex partnership in a sermon. At the trial, an all-clergy jury voted 12-1 that she was guilty of violating Methodist law. In a subsequent penalty phase, jurors voted to defrock her by 7-6.
    Ms. Stroud is one of three homosexual clergy members tried since the Methodist General Conference passed its homosexual ban in 1984. The Rev. Rose Mary Denman of New Hampshire was defrocked in 1987, and the Rev. Karen Dammann of Washington state was acquitted last March.
    Philadelphia's First United Methodist Church of Germantown has continued to employ Ms. Stroud as a lay worker.

[BJClinton]

The female minister thing I can handle, and I don't care to debate it. But if the ELCA condones homosexual marriages, our family is converting to Missouri Senate.

[Redleg Duke]

You make such statements just to attract attention, don't you!

[BJClinton]

All of the church reps I've seen that want to participate are activists. It ain't looking good.

[Woodworker]

The problem seems to be that the Methodist Church has rules over and above the Bible. That situation provided an opening for the whole ludicrous proceeding from "ordination", through "coming out sermon", conviction, and appeal. Based on the ability of people to twist language (reference the Supreme Court), literal defrocking, followed by an orgy, could well be just around the corner!

[azhenfud]

A (former) Methodist minister who was defrocked (snip!)

[Democrap]

Compare that with 1 Timothy 2:12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have[b] authority over a man[/b]; instead, she is to be silent.

You seem to have missed the word authority xzins. The verse means not to lead.

[Democrap]

And to Eve he said Gen 3:16 " He said to the woman: I will intensify your labor pains; you will bear children in anguish. Your desire will be for your husband, yet he will dominate you."

It all goes back to the first sin.

[xzins]

Actually, I didn't miss it.

It is literally 1 Timothy 2:12 But I permit not a wife to drill, nor to dominate, a husband but to be in serenity.

A classic rejection of the overbearing dominatrix.

[N3WBI3]

When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.

What you are missing is that the man was a Jew, not a Christian. Further this is not a church situation where the women were in authority over Apollos. Christian women can share, with Christians and non Christians but they can not be in a teaching authority over a man in church. The husband is to be the spiritual head of the household and priest to his wife.

[xzins]

See #71

I agree it is a husband/wife issue.

[Democrap]

xzins, I hope you don't mind if I do a cut and paste here. I reviewed 5 synopsis of 1 Timothy 2:12 and they are all about the same. Darby was the shortest so here you are: John Darby's Synopsis
Paul has plainly now laid the foundations, and he proceeds therefore to details. Men were to pray everywhere, lifting up pure hands, without wrath, and without vain human reasonings. Women were to walk in modesty, adorned with good works, and to learn in silence. A woman was forbidden to teach or to exercise authority over men; she was to abide in quietness and silence. The reason given for this is remarkable, and shews how, in our relations with God, everything depends on the original starting-point. In innocence Adam had the first place; in sin, Eve It was she who, being deceived, brought in transgression. Adam was not deceived, guilty as he was of disobeying God. United to his wife, he followed her, not deceived by the enemy but weak through his affection. Without the weakness, it was this which the second Adam did in grace; He followed His deceived and guilty bride, but in order to redeem and deliver her by taking her faults upon Himself. Eve suffered on earth the penalty of her fault in a way which is a mark of the judgment of God; but walking in modesty, with faith and love and holiness, she shall be delivered in the hour of her trial; and that which bears the stamp of judgment shall be an occasion of the mercy and succour of God.

[xzins]

I would expect most commentary on this verse to be similar.

The issue is whether we can find any verses which demonstrate a woman being other than quiet in the church. We can find them.

Therefore, an alternative explanation would be based upon that discrepancy. The alternative is that this is a husband/wife issue, and not a male/female issue.

[N3WBI3]

Being quiet in the church does not equal not having authority over a man in the church. Women can run Ministries for other Women, Kids, or act as support for a ministry. But I am not aware of a verse when a woman is put in authority over a man ** within the church **..

Paul intends to say just what is said, that a Woman should not be in authority over a man in the church...

[xzins]

As I said, it is not a male/female issue but is rather a husband/wife issue. Paul doesn't tolerate dominatrix type wives walking all over their husbands.

There are too many active females in the NT church for one to make a legitimate case that this particular "being quiet" does not mean "shutting up" in church.

[N3WBI3]

There are too many active females in the NT church for one to make a legitimate case that this particular "being quiet" does not mean "shutting up" in church.

The question is not one of activity, the question is one of authority! Active women in the NT church did not have authority over Men, a woman at the Pulpit has authority, Women as elders have authority, and women running ministries that cater to men have authority... This is clearly not how the Bible lays out a proper church..

[DaveTesla]

You are so right.

I t was Woman that Satan deceived.
Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
3:12
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with
me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
3:13
And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that
thou hast done ? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled
me, and I did eat.

[JesseHousman]

Lesbian minister to appeal

Instead of wasting precious days and weeks of her perverted life she needs to repent and amend her sinful activities.