Posted on 12/26/2004 6:35:58 PM PST by Saberwielder
30 More Pakistani Soldiers to Get Death Penalty for Indiscipline
By M T Butt
ISLAMABAD, December 27: As many as 30 Pakistan Army and Air Force personnel are facing the death penalty in several Court Martial proceedings going on in Military Courts in the Kharian Army Cantonment, about 60 miles from Islamabad, highly competent military sources have revealed to South Asia Tribune.
In a remarkable release of confidential information, these sources also gave the details of the Charge Sheet against the only Army soldier sentenced to death by the same military court on October 20, 2004.
Surprisingly the Charge Sheet does not accuse Sepoy Muhammad Islam Siddiqi, Army No 8831068 of any direct participation or involvement in the attack on General Pervez Musharraf in December 2003 near Chaklala Bridge in Rawalpindi, contrary to what was claimed in the official announcement on December 24.
Director General of Pakistan Army’s Inter Services Public Relations, Major General Shaukat Sultan had confirmed on Dec 24 that one Pakistani soldier had been sentenced to death. Confirming the story first broken by Karachi journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad in Asia Times Online on December 21 about the death sentence, Maj. General Sultan had also announced that another soldier had been awarded a 10-year jail sentence. Click to see original Asia Times Story
But military sources are now saying the official version given by ISPR Director General was badly distorted and in fact more than 30 Army and Air Force personnel are have been charged with the same crime and will soon get the same sentence. Announcements about these death sentences will be staggered to minimize the impact.
The ISPR claimed that the death sentence had been given for involvement in the assassination attempt on General Musharraf but actually Sepoy Muhammad Islam Siddiqi had refused to serve in South Waziristan and was at best guilty of violating military discipline along with dozens of others.
The Army prosecutors who did not want to publicly admit that largescale defiance had taken place in South Waziristan where the Army had been deployed against the tribesmen, merged the indiscipline charges against these troops with the assassination attempts on General Musharraf and sought death sentences for the accused.
According to these sources the South Waziristan operation had turned out to be biggest dent in Army discipline when several units declined to be posted in South Waziristan and dozens of troops refused to continue the fight against tribes. The Army top brass was shaken and most of these troops were recalled from the front line.
Convicted Sepoy Islam Siddiqi was among them who was arrested in South Waziristan on defiance and abetting defiance among soldiers and sent to Kharian Cantonment where, after a brief interrogation, he was tried and convicted on October 20, 2004.
Following charges under the Pakistan Army Act (PAA) were read out by a Brigadier who headed the military court:
First Charge
PAA Section 59: Committing a civil offence, that is to say receiving training in terrorism, In that he, at Bhimber (Azad Jammu and Kashmir) during August 2002, received training in the acts of terrorism, at the “Maasker” a training camp of ‘Jaish-e- Mohammed’ a proscribed organization and thereby committed an offense punishable under sub-section (7) (C) of the Anti Terrorism Act, 1997.
Second Charge
PAA Sec 55 (alternative to first charge): Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in that he at Bhimber (Azad Jammu and Kashmir) during August 2002, improperly attended at a ‘Maasker’, the training camp of a sectarian organization.
Third Charge
PAA Section 31(d): Attempting to seduce a person in the military forces of Pakistan from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan, in that he at Peshawar, during Feb 2003 attempted to seduce 8839274 Sepoy Hafiz Muhammad Ashfaq of 2 Defence Services Guard Battalion, from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan.
Fourth Charge
PAA Section 31(d): Attempting to seduce a person in the military forces of Pakistan from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan, in that he, at Peshawar during Feb 2003 to January 2004 attempted to seduce 889174 sepoy Hafiz Salah Uddin of 1 Defence Services Guard Company, from his allegiance to the Government of Pakistan.
Fifth Charge
PAA Section 59: Committing a civil offence that is to say, professing to belong to a proscribed organization, in that he, at Peshawar, Murid and elsewhere, during January 2002 to January 2004 professed to belong to ‘Jaish-e-Mohammad’ a proscribed organization: and thereby committed an offence punishable under section 11-F (2) of the Anti Terrorism Act 1997.
Sixth Charge
PAA Section 59: Committing a civil offence that is to say being a citizen of Pakistan, departing from Pakistan without passport, in that he, at Pak-Afghan border, during June 1999, being a citizen of Pakistan, departed from Pakistan without a passport to Afghanistan in contravention of Section 3(a) of the Passport Act, 1974 and thereby committed an offence punishable under section 4(1) of the Passport Act, 1974.
Seventh Charge
PAA Section 55: Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline at Murid, Peshawar and elsewhere during July 2002 to January 2004, improperly remained associated with a Tanzeem (organization) of Pakistan Air Force personnel, which was advancing the object of eliminating General Pervez Musharraf, the President of
Pakistan.
Eighth Charge
PAA Section 55 (alternative to seventh charge): Neglect to the prejudice of good order and military discipline in that he, at Murid, Warsak and elsewhere, during July 2002 to January 2004, having known that some personnel belonging to a Tanzeem of Pakistan Air Force had designs to eliminate General Pervez Musharraf, the President of Pakistan neglected to report the same to his superiors.
Ninth Charge
PAA Section 55: Conduct to the prejudice of good order and military discipline, in that he, at Peshawar during September-October 2003, improperly received 6 x capsules containing poison from No 3060314 Havaldar Mohammed Younis of 98 Air Defence Regiment with ulterior motives.
Military sources and legal experts contacted by the South Asia Tribune said if these charges were made the basis of the death sentence give to Sepoy Islam Siddiqi, then hundreds or even thousands of Pakistan Army troops could be found guilty and convicted.
These experts said the closest Sepoy Siddiqi came to the assassination attempt on General Musharraf was to get “associated with an organization of Pakistan Air Force personnel, which was advancing the object of eliminating General Pervez Musharraf, the President of Pakistan.” This in no way proves, or even accuses, Siddiqi of having a hand in the unsuccessful attempt on Musharraf.
They said if Siddiqi could be sentenced to death for being associated with the organization which had “designs of eliminating General Musharraf” then the entire organization would have to be found equally guilty and put to death.
Likewise if traveling to Afghanistan without a passport was made the basis of death sentence, the entire tribal population and three-fourth of residents of NWFP could be found guilty of the same crime as no one in the Tribal Areas needs a passport to cross into Afghanistan.
Similarly defying military orders to fight in South Waziristan against fellow tribal citizens could land hundreds of Pakistan Army troops into the same category deserving death penalties.
On a political level the charges against arrested soldiers also confirm that many members of the Pakistan armed forces have been actively training with military Islamic organizations like Jaish Mohammed in Azad Kashmir and other locations within Pakistan.
“This is an implicit admission by the Army that such camps existed and elements of the Army were directly involved in one capacity or another. This could substantiate charges leveled by the Indians of Army’s active support and involvement in the insurgency in Kashmir,” a legal expert said.
Even if these elements were not supported by the top Army brass, it confirms that there were factions within the Army which did not follow the official Army and State policy and that could also turn out to be very damaging for Pakistan.
Nope, not even close. Try to read, comprehend and focus on the two specific questions before you (and not the questions you'd wish that I'd ask).
"This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!" --Saberwielder at #1"These guys" and "hold the keys".
Post the proof to back up your reckless accusations against Mushi or retrack.
--Boot Hill
Sorry to bother....
Most NATO countries and former Soviet bloc nations have/had nuclear weapons that have security devices preventing unauthorized use. We put PALs on American nukes stored in NATO countries. But Pakistan's nukes don't have any, according to most reports.
Around the time of the attempts on Musharraf's life late in 2003, reports came out that the US has installed PALs on Pakistan's warheads. Strictly speaking this is illegal under American law because we cannot give such devices to non-NPT signatories. But given the sensitivity of this issue, it wouldn't be surprising if we did put them on Pakistani nukes, even if it was skirting legality under American law.
"lower level officers and enlisted men" actually "hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads. Where's your proof for that reckless charge?
Therefore - you try to read, comprehend and focus on my replies in #35 and #40.
I have conclusively proven, with US govt and independent expert statements that substantiate my claim that lower level Pakistani officers and enlisted men hold the keys to Pakistan's nukes.
Stop moving the goalposts.
That may be interesting, but it way off point of what I asked. What you still haven't addressed at all is the following:
"This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!" --Saberwielder at #1"These guys" and "hold the keys".
Post the proof to back up your reckless and false defamation against Mushi and Bush's foreign policy in Pakistan, or retrack it.
--Boot Hill
Is the report you were commission for on the net for us to read or was it classified er something ?
But since you got beat in the debate, you are trying to shift the goalposts.
I notice that in that same post (#30), you say:
Obviously, the actual keys to the Pakistani nukes are held by the general staff that prosecuted these miscreants.
Do you have any proof that the same men - individuals who prosecuted the specific individuals mentioned in the article actually hold the keys to Pakistan's nukes?
If you cannot prove that those specific Generals hold the nuclear keys, do you admit to being a liar?
Two can play this game.
That would be incorrect, once again. How about instead of you trying to conjure up your own idea about what I "understood", let me set you straight. First, review what you posted in #1...
"This is serious stuff. These guys hold the keys to about a 100 nuclear warheads!" --Saberwielder at #1That was in the first post after the thread article, and as such, the immediate antecedent to your use of the phrase "These guys..." was the thread article, whose central thesis, in both title and opening paragraph, was "30 Pakistan Army and Air Force personnel". You subsequently refined your description of "these guys" (in post #22), as being "lower level officers and enlisted men". So what we were left with is that "these guys" were...
"30 Pakistan Army and Air Force personnel" who were "lower level officers and enlisted men".Now even if we accept your novel spin and last-minute retraction, that maybe you were referring to "army officers and enlisted men in general", and not the 30 soldiers that were at the heart of the thread article, we are still left with the second question unanswered.
Post the proof to back up your reckless and false defamation against Mushi, and Bush's foreign policy in Pakistan, or retract it.
--Boot Hill
It took me about two minutes of searching, if that.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011221-12.html
...I [President Bush] call upon President Musharraf to take decisive action against Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed and other terrorist organizations, their leaders, finances, and activities...
Now, this is the part where you come back saying "Bush didn't really criticize Musharraf!"
To which I respond with "This doesn't exactly fit in with your #28." (I call upon President Musharraf to take decisive action against Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed and other terrorist organizations, their leaders, finances, and activities.)
Hmm-that's not exactly criticism,world leaders constantly call on others-both friendly & not so friendly to take actions.Tony Blair called upon Bush to try for a second resolution on Iraq,but didn't take on Bush when that didn't happen.I can give numerous examples involving US-Israel("telling Sharon to not kill Arafat"),India-Russia relations to name a few.
Criticism involves taking the leader to task.Like specifically asking him what Pakistani C-130s were doing in North Korea in 2002? or the presence of Saudi dignitaries at Pakistan's nuclear facilities & missile tests & REPRIMANDING HIM.
From the link you posted-
"President Musharraf has condemned the terrorist attacks on the Legislature in Srinagar and on the Indian Parliament. He has said that he would move against those involved in the attacks. As President Musharraf does so, he will have our full support. "
Which is what I said. But it's also not "Musharraf can do no wrong!" And I wasn't gonna spend anymore time on the search, quite frankly. The U.S. has been very hesitant to publicly criticize Musharraf, and for good reason.
"The U.S. has been very hesitant to publicly criticize Musharraf, and for good reason."
I wonder just for how long can the US afford to go on hesitating to publicly criticize Musharraf. Sooner or later they will have to face the reality ....I just hope its not too late by then.
The U.S. government faced reality concerning Pakistan long ago. There's a difference between knowing something and publicly blasting someone for it.
Fair enough. But if the Bush admin knows the reality about Pakistan, then why have they not pressed Musharraf even privately to give access to A.Q.Khan, clean up his education system etc?
The lack of results in these areas show that Musharraf doesn't take our concerns seriously. We know that a public hint gets results.
That's why I said that our current policy is "Musharraf can do no wrong."
Alright then me put it this way : I wonder just for how long can the US afford to molly coddle Musharraf even as it sees the reality. And just how long is the US ready to wait and watch (inspite of knowing the reality) and allow Musharraf to have his way (i.e do nothing but provide lip service and support terrorists thru' the back door) before it decided that enough is enough and Musharraf needs a public blasting. Cos by then public blasting wouldnt be much use if Pakistan pulls an Iran on u guys.
If "nothing but lip service" equals delivery of Abu Zubaydah, Hambali, and al-Nashiri (IIRC), to name a few, then I'll take some more of Mushy's service. (<<<Things that sound dirty, but aren't!)
If you are a rancher and live next to a forest full of wolves and the forest ranger says I'll give you one wolf a month but will not let you clean up the forest, don't the odds dictate that sooner or later someone gets sloppy and lets a wolf into your ranch?
There's a long term war on terror going on Coop.
If you can honestly say the AQ infrastructure has been left intact despite Pakistani actions, then I think we're done with this discussion. Good day.
What are your metrics for deciding if Al Qaeda is dead or dying? What are the concrete items? Are you satisfied if the Paks cough up an Al Qaeda #3 every few months and announce arrests of #4.75 and #5.63 in between?
Did you notice that every time we arrest an Al Qaeda # 3, another one pops up with last known location in a Pakistani city? Who and what gives these guys sustenance?
I don't question Musharraf's sincerety in helping us thwart specific plots or arrest specific figures. I'm sure that he wants to avoid any attacks on us. But I question his intent to reform his country fundamentally. Do you know that not a single jihadi madrassa has been closed by Musharraf? Where do you think the next generation of Al Qaeda is coming from? Why aren't all the Pakistani people organiations who gave shelter to the Zubaidahs and the KSMs eliminated yet?
We have collaboratively accomplished a great deal since 9/11, but the swamp that breeds the snakes is still largely undrained. How long will you keep catching snakes?
I only see one liners in reply from you. I have an open mind and am ready to be corrected if factual arguments can be made. But are you ready to drop your shibboleths?
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