Posted on 12/22/2004 7:05:54 AM PST by Graybeard58
I hope the students didn't try to tell him that when they didn't have their homework ready!
And, I'll tell you something else. Some of you on here seem to think YOU have the right to tell the schools what to do. It's NOT going to happen. You're powerless, helpless and last of all don't have the backbone to do anything but write on this forum and complain and all of the liberals know it. They just ignore you.
When I needed help, it wasn't there. Have major trouble showing a whole lot of sympathy to anyone else who doesn't follow orders or the established rules.
Please reference the verses in the Bible (Christian) that say slavery is moral, subjugation of women is moral, hunting down (I'm assuming that you mean killing) people who claim to be witches is moral, and dictatorships are moral. Until than you have no argument greater than "Oh, yeah... I say so..." I'll wait for the verse references from you.
"If a math teacher that was a volunteer fireman started stopping students in the hall and giving them lectures on fire control ..."
So lets hypothesize a student told the fireman-math teacher that she smokes in bed before going to sleep and will continue to do so. Later she passes the teacher in the hall and he says she should seriously reconsider her smoking in bed as so many die from fires that start in bed, and she protests that he is making her uncomfortable.
So the fireman-math teacher should be fired?
Again, no has shown that his speeking about his religion was not in response to studnet questions. That is a crucial peice of information or else he is being unlawfully suppressed in his role as a public employee.
I send my children to school to learn about the subject they are to be taught. I DO NOT send my child to school learn about God -- I send my children to CCD for that purpose.
I do not want my children being preached to by anyone about anything in public school. If you want your children to learn about God while they are at school, send them to the appropriate parochial school...not public school.
This guy was supposed to be teaching math. That is all.
No, in today's government schools the kids would be too busy trying to figure out what a homosexual is, if they should be one (because it is touted as VERY cool by the government school systems), and why sex is being forced on them, to concentrate on academic homework.
Perhaps he could have used more discretion, but, in our PC world, I wonder if he would still have his job if he was promoting Islam?
Interesting that you would support the teacher over the parents in religious matters ...
"My opinion is Mr. Ziegler was hired to teach math," he said. "And math instruction must come first."
Amen!"
Where in the article does it show that math instruction was not coming first? simply because he was willing to discuss other issues including his faith?
I remember in school that the most boring classes had teachers that stuck strictly to the book and would not discuss the footb all game or anything else of interest to the students. We were supposed to file in, take our seats, get spoon fed our facts for the day and then leave, all the while actually maintaining interest in such a boring process.
If this guy was a good teacher, and it seems he was, he was engaging his students at every level and not restricting things merely to the days lesson plan.
And again, where is there any evidence that he was *failing* to teach his students the math? What were their grades like? How did they perform in his class compared to others?
And who was this mysteryous 'co-teacher' that kept reporting him? What was their agenda? Could there have beenany proffessional jealousy because the Christian was getting more done with his students?
Why are Christians so quick to assume that this man was being incompetent in the performance of his job simply because he was willing to answer student questions regarding his personal beliefs? Such prejudicial condemnation of this man is not supported from the facts related in the story.
This whoile thing is centered, yet again, on the suppression of Christian expression.
Why do Christians put up with this idiocy in defence of persecution of other Christians?
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER FOR THE BEST COMMENT
Why do Christians want a math teacher possibly undermining their kids religion?
BTW, you watch too many football games.
"I do not want my children being preached to by anyone about anything in public school. If you want your children to learn about God while they are at school, send them to the appropriate parochial school...not public school."
Do you really think that your kids are not getting religious education at school?
They sure are. They get it from their friends, they get it by ommission in an environment entirely devoid of any mention of God.
Yes, they get religious discussion as it is a central area of values that any growing child will inquire about outside of the home.
Simply because you dont want religious info reaching your kids from teachers doesnt mean it wont happen. It just means you have no idea who is doing and what kind of values that they represent.
That says it all. That's the reason I sent my kids to church school. I have grand children in public school and they assure me that they still pray there. They do it quietly and don't make an issue of it.
I would rue the day that teachers start praying aloud to students in public schools. I don't want my grand children bowing towards Mecca 6 times a day or praying to Budda.
They attend church and are instructed in religion at home. I wouldn't trust government school teachers to do the job.
"Interesting that you would support the teacher over the parents in religious matters ..."
I support the free expression of religious views to remove from students the impression that no educated person has faith, an impression all too common these days that this ban on Chrsitan expression reinforces.
What are these parents wanting to do about other kids from other denominations talking to their children about their faith? Is it better for them to hear it from another studnet instead of a teacher?
And what about teachers that despise and ridicule any form of religion who have full reign in schools today? Is that OK for the parents as well. That is what they are actually getting while they try to gag every Christian who works at that school.
Exactly. And if you find your kids' math teacher providing them with the gospel, you should be properly alarmed!
Of course, there are some people that are unconcerned about how their children might come under the influence of someone in authority and thus undermine the family ties but I am sure you are not one of those.
> Please reference the verses in the Bible (Christian) that say slavery is moral
Look up the scriptural claims of many Confederate preachers.
> hunting down (I'm assuming that you mean killing) people who claim to be witches is moral
That one's easy: "do not suffer a witch to live."
And I suggest you re-read (or, as seems more likely, read) the last two sentences of my post that you responded to. You are settign up a strawman in demanding that I post Bible verses that proclaim that such and such are moral, when the fact of the matter is I wasn't the one who, hundreds of years ago, believed it to be so. I'm just pointing out that Biblical interpretation, and hense Bible-based morality, is not immutable.
Well not if he was direct about it. But if he was sufficiently subtle and called it "diversity and multiculturism" he would get away with it.
Teachers who out and out advocate for any political cause will get dismissed in all but the most liberal school districts. Count on most teachers to know this and be more careful. But the general idea behind your post is true.
I'm not assuming that he was incompetent in teaching math. However, the article clearly points out that he was definitely expressly promoting his faith and making some kids feel uncomfortable because of his religious promotion.
As I said earlier, he sounds like a great guy! This just isn't the role for him.
"Why do Christians want a math teacher possibly undermining their kids religion?"
You seem to think that as long as a teacher doesnt speak of their personal faith, the kids faith is safe.
Sorry, but that is not the case. The absence of any teachers discussing faith of any kind undermines the faith of the kids far more by presenting the illusion that there is something wrong with educated people speaking about their faith.
Besides, this does not stop the secularists from speaking of things antithical to faith and that undermines the faith of these children even more so.
Why cant parents trust their children to make up their own minds and not castigate good teachers who are only answering honest questions as far as anyone knows?
"I'm not assuming that he was incompetent in teaching math. However, the article clearly points out that he was definitely expressly promoting his faith and making some kids feel uncomfortable because of his religious promotion."
The article does NOT say that his expressing his faith was in the form of a self initiated sermon or whether it was a simple answer to a question.
And of course the subject of religion will always make someone uncomfortable just like dissecting frogs does. Should we stop that too?
So, a Christian forfeits his right to answer simple questions because they are public employees and this is a good thing to you?
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