Posted on 12/21/2004 11:49:02 PM PST by JohnHuang2
Good point.
Sometimes we just gotta cut thru the blather, and go to the source!
Nah.. ALWAYS!!!!
Great post.
YUP!
And I know that Mary agrees.
Though I probably should have said that from what I know of Mary, I'm rather sure she agrees!
No, HE didn't.
THEY are the one's who BROKE the Covenant.
GOD made a NEW covenant.
How the second coming of Christ will begin:
Scriptural statements about the second coming of Christ are fragmentary and scattered. I believe the best point to gather the various statements around is the proclamation of two angels at the Ascension of Jesus Christ into Heaven: "... this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11). There are three accounts of the ascension, Mark 16:19, Luke 24:51, and Acts 1:9. By reading these in context, we are able to piece together what happened just prior to, during, and just after the Ascension. This is important since "in like manner" would take related happenings into account. Therefore, our study of the Ascension must be expanded to Mark 16:14-20, Luke 24:33-53, and Acts 1:1-14, at least. There is no discrepancy between the "as far as to Bethany" of Luke 24:50 and "returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet" of Acts 1:12, since Bethany was on the eastern slope of the Mount ofOlives.
There was a sequence of events leading up to the Ascension. There was a meeting in Jerusalem of church members including the eleven apostles at which Jesus appeared, rebuked them, ate a meal with them, and taught them. Then a portion of them, apparently the eleven apostles, were led by Jesus toward Bethany, apparently teaching them along the way. Then while the Ascension was happening, we have the statement by two angels that "in like manner" Jesus would return. Then those witnessing the Ascension returned to the gathering of church members in Jerusalem. Since certain phrases in translations are vague on details, it is good to read the accounts in several different translations, perhaps even looking at some of the Greek words involved.
Now obviously "in like manner" could not be a repeat of the sequence, but must be reversed in order to have Jesus returning. When we reverse the sequence, I get this result. Among Christian believers will be those expecting Christ's return. "And at midnight there was a cry made [I would guess by angels], Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him" (Matthew 25:6). Those able to quickly respond to this summons (Hebrews 9:28) may witness Jesus descending from a cloud. I would imagine that He will teach them. They would then carry their witness and tidings to larger groups of Christians, who would meet to discuss what is being claimed. Then confrontations would take place between Christ and those supposed to be doing his work on Earth (Malachi 3:1-5; Luke 12:35-48). The net result would be that the church would be cleansed and inspired to accomplish its final tasks before the thousand year reign of Christ begins.
I would also group Isaiah 52:10 with these events. "The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of God." I interpret "the eyes of the nations" as referring to those guided by the Holy Spirit, and who can thereby see the kingdom of God (see John 3:3).
Here are some scriptures concerning the earlier stages of our Lord's return:
Isaiah 59:19-20, King James Version:
"When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord."
Malachi 3:1-5, King James Version:
"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in; behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap; and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years. And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts."
Luke 12:35-48, Helen Montgomery's translation:
"Let your loins be girded about and your lamps burning; and be yourselves like men who are looking for their lord, on his return from a wedding-banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they may at once open the door for him. Happy are those slaves whom their master shall find watching when he comes. I tell you truly that he will gird himself, and make them sit down to meat, and come and serve them. And whether it be in the second watch, or in the third, that he comes, and so finds them, happy are those slaves. However, you know this, that if the master of the house had known in what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Do you also be ready, for in an hour that you think not the Son of man is coming." "Master," said Peter, "are you speaking this parable to us or to all alike?" The Lord answered: "Who then is that faithful steward, the wise man whom his lord will put in charge of his household to give out their rations in due time? Blessed is that slave whom his master on his coming shall find so doing. Of a truth I tell you that he will put him in charge of his possessions. But if that slave should say to himself, 'My master delays his coming,' and should begin to beat the men and the maids, and to eat and drink and to get drunk, that slave's master will arrive on a day when he is not expecting him, and at an hour when he knows not, and will surely scourge him, and appoint him his portion with the unfaithful. The slave who knew his Lord's will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, will be beaten with many lashes, but he who did not know, but did things worthy of a beating, will receive few lashes. To whom much has been given, from him much will be required, and to whom much is entrusted, of him they will ask the more."
If I tell you, I'll have to kill you.......
I thought EVRY Christian on FR had been, at one time or another, gotten entangled with the tarbaby of the never ending 'discussion' of Creation vs Evolution
I agree fully
Only if you have the time.....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1300348/posts
Thanks for a great collection of Scriptures. Well reasoned and presented.
Slight suggestion for easier reading--shorter paragraphs.
Ahhhhh.
My attackers are usually the . . . hyper Calvinists etc. of a certain ping list.
I think Matthew 24:14 tells when the end will come. However no one except God will know when the Gospel has been preached to the whole world. I guess when the last person has heard the Gospel then the end will come.
Taxes, I hardly know where to begin. No connection between Jesus and Israel? Israel is the lens through which the ENTIRE BIBLE was written! As for the specific reference to the rebirth of Israel as a nation, here's one:
Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
That, my friend, took place in 1948. And regarding the "we can't know when" statement, it utterly baffles me as to why any discussion of endtime prophecy automatically brings out references to the "can't know the hour" passage, while totally IGNORING Jesus's clear instructions to recognize the SEASON.
I also don't see how anyone could approach the issue with reasonably deep study and believe that only one incident involving Christ's return lies ahead. For example, let's visit the aforementioned "hour" issue for a moment. I think we agree that this means we cannot predict Christ's return with any detailed specificity as to time, right? If that be the case, then it CANNOT be talking about Christ's actual return to Earth to launch his 1000-year reign. Why? Because by that time, we would indeed be able to predict his return with remarkable accuracy, since it follows seven years about which more is written in the Bible than any other period of time.
Thus, the "hour" reference MUST refer to something that will be unexpected: the Rapture. To buttress this position, the Bible talks about how one worker in the field will be taken and one left behind, and also gives several other similar examples of one taken and one not. In each instance, it clearly describes people side by side, believer and unbeliever, life proceeding as normal--as in the days of Noah. This also MUST be prior to Christ's Armageddon return, because at the time of Armageddon, believers and unbelievers will DEFINITELY not be working side by side as if everything is hunky-dory. At the time of Armageddon, believers will have refused to take the mark of the beast and will therefore be forced to live separately, as an underground movement.
I'm convinced we're seeing the final pieces of prophecy shuffled around as the stage is set. The EU is evolving. We recently saw the first major tangible connection between Israel and Russia; I honestly can't recall the exact detail but within the past few months there has been some kind of proclamation about Russia working with Israel on something. This arrangement will no doubt sour, of course, since Russia is almost certainly Magog. The "falling away," which refers to the apostate church, accelerates almost daily now; look around at churches with homosexual clergy, "pastors" fighting to drive God further from public view, etc. etc. The pieces are all falling into place.
And, again, it ALL revolves around Israel. In fact, I believe our support of Israel is the only thing that has thus far saved our ever-more-hedonistic nation from the wrath of God.
MM
I believe that Christ is reigning, just as he said he would. He said that His was a spiritual kingdom. He also said that He was coming back, I believe that He will. He said he would deliver the kingdom to the Father. Why would we put our hope in living in this world, He clearly has something bigger planned. 1000 is meant to be literal
Jesus said that He came to set-up His kingdom. I believe Him, it is a spiritual kingdom.
How do you come up with an earthy reign at His coming from the mention of 1000 years?
Christ fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies. He fulfilled the Old Testament laws.
God made a covenant with the Jews in the Old Testament. That covenant said that He would be their God if they served Him. The Jews broke that covenant when they rejected Jesus. That covenant has been given to all who come to faith in Jesus Christ.(John 8) The state of Israel is a non issue.
In your thinking, when does the division of believers and unbelievers take place (sheep and goats)(Matthew 25:31-46)?
There is nothing in the Gospels that even hints at a rapture.
Taxes, God's covenant with Israel was UNCONDITIONAL, clearly signified by the fact that he put Abraham to sleep during the ritual, putting the onus completely on Himself.
It's obvious that this discussion is going nowhere, so we'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.
MM
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