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To: taxesareforever; Quix
I believe the end times began at the Ascension of Jesus into heaven. There is nothing in Scripture that states that a state of Israel must be established before the Second Coming (Judgement Day). What connection to Israel does Jesus have? There is none. We do not even know the era in which he will return. We can see the signs and these should make us aware that He can come at any moment. But to know when and where is not know to man and the where is not in Israel but in the heavens.

Taxes, I hardly know where to begin. No connection between Jesus and Israel? Israel is the lens through which the ENTIRE BIBLE was written! As for the specific reference to the rebirth of Israel as a nation, here's one:

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

That, my friend, took place in 1948. And regarding the "we can't know when" statement, it utterly baffles me as to why any discussion of endtime prophecy automatically brings out references to the "can't know the hour" passage, while totally IGNORING Jesus's clear instructions to recognize the SEASON.

I also don't see how anyone could approach the issue with reasonably deep study and believe that only one incident involving Christ's return lies ahead. For example, let's visit the aforementioned "hour" issue for a moment. I think we agree that this means we cannot predict Christ's return with any detailed specificity as to time, right? If that be the case, then it CANNOT be talking about Christ's actual return to Earth to launch his 1000-year reign. Why? Because by that time, we would indeed be able to predict his return with remarkable accuracy, since it follows seven years about which more is written in the Bible than any other period of time.

Thus, the "hour" reference MUST refer to something that will be unexpected: the Rapture. To buttress this position, the Bible talks about how one worker in the field will be taken and one left behind, and also gives several other similar examples of one taken and one not. In each instance, it clearly describes people side by side, believer and unbeliever, life proceeding as normal--as in the days of Noah. This also MUST be prior to Christ's Armageddon return, because at the time of Armageddon, believers and unbelievers will DEFINITELY not be working side by side as if everything is hunky-dory. At the time of Armageddon, believers will have refused to take the mark of the beast and will therefore be forced to live separately, as an underground movement.

I'm convinced we're seeing the final pieces of prophecy shuffled around as the stage is set. The EU is evolving. We recently saw the first major tangible connection between Israel and Russia; I honestly can't recall the exact detail but within the past few months there has been some kind of proclamation about Russia working with Israel on something. This arrangement will no doubt sour, of course, since Russia is almost certainly Magog. The "falling away," which refers to the apostate church, accelerates almost daily now; look around at churches with homosexual clergy, "pastors" fighting to drive God further from public view, etc. etc. The pieces are all falling into place.

And, again, it ALL revolves around Israel. In fact, I believe our support of Israel is the only thing that has thus far saved our ever-more-hedonistic nation from the wrath of God.

MM

276 posted on 12/23/2004 8:20:28 AM PST by MississippiMan (Americans should not be sacrificed on the altar of political correctness.)
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To: MississippiMan

Christ fulfilled all of the Old Testament prophecies. He fulfilled the Old Testament laws.
God made a covenant with the Jews in the Old Testament. That covenant said that He would be their God if they served Him. The Jews broke that covenant when they rejected Jesus. That covenant has been given to all who come to faith in Jesus Christ.(John 8) The state of Israel is a non issue.
In your thinking, when does the division of believers and unbelievers take place (sheep and goats)(Matthew 25:31-46)?
There is nothing in the Gospels that even hints at a rapture.


279 posted on 12/23/2004 9:22:55 AM PST by taxesareforever
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To: MississippiMan

I still don't remotely have it all figured out.

And, I think it could be either way.

However, I have often wondered if the one taken/one left didn't mean that the evil one was taken out of the world.


284 posted on 12/23/2004 10:08:40 AM PST by Quix (5having a form of godliness but denying its power. I TIM 3:5)
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To: MississippiMan

>In fact I believe our support of Israel is the only thing that has thus far saved our evermore hedonistic nation from the wrath of God<

I agree. Well said, MM.


293 posted on 12/23/2004 11:57:25 AM PST by Paperdoll (On the cutting edge)
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