[Nick Danger]

It's babies or immigrants, folks. Take your pick. We cannot arrive at 2025 with two workers per retiree.

You can only tax people so much. If we're not going to have euthanisia for Granny, we need people out there working and paying taxes.

Right now the fertility of American women is just below the replacement rate. We're not going to avoid a demographic debacle if that keeps up.

Just be glad our immigrants are from a basically Christian country, and they don't come here with orders from God to kill us all.

But come they will, and the government won't do squat about it. They can't. They can't allow the demographic time bomb to go off; it's too ugly.

So rail and rant all you want. Nothing will change.

[You Dirty Rats]

So rail and rant all you want. Nothing will change.

I hope your trenchcoat is lined with asbestos.

I find the demand that all illegal aliens be kicked out of the country to be amusing. There is no political consensus to do that, nor will there be in the foreseeable future. We're not about to cast a dragnet over the entire country and demand everybody produce papers or get kicked out. Nor are we going to fine & jail employers and wrecks the agricultural industry.

The President is trying to address a serious problem seriously, and all we get are unrealistic demands and attacks on the man.

If something like the President's plan isn't adopted, we'll be left with the status quo, which is worse.

Got a spare asbestos trenchcoat?

[DoughtyOne]

Actually, the population time bomb is in some respects a decent arguement. One aspect that you may not have considered, is that soon we are going to be competing with a nation with 1.5 billion people, for market share and world domination. It takes numbers to do that.

While I do see it as a problem of too few people, I think current policy is going about fixing it in the wrong way.

We flood the market with too much product. What always happens? The price of that product goes down. Wages are artificially low because we have a steady stream of cheap labor, and the government has decided to promote outsourcing manufacturing and clerical jobs. This further deflates the wage market.

What happens when the wages are deflated? Why of course, two people have to get up and go to work every morning. And when two people have to do this, guess what happens to the prospects of children in those households?

Nick, as I see it we have done everything possible to deflate wages in the U.S., pushing potential parents out of the home. We've done this to the point of our own ruination. Now 'the fix' is to import people for a foreign land that don't really fit like a glove. They fit more like an octagon shaped peg in a round hole. They're almost all the way there, but they're different enough that we pay a very heavy price for importing them. They can't support themselves. The come here and have excessive numbers of children which we can't afford to education or keep well.

IMO, it would be far better to reduce the workforce, let wages escalate. Let one adult stay home raising the children. And promote larger families within the nation, rather than essentilly exterminating the good citizens of the U.S. over several generations.

If we keep going like we are, this nation will be 50% Mexican by 2025 to 2030, and the white portion will be little larger than it is today. We know the reasons why. I think we should fix it.

The citizens of this nation deserve as much consideration as the citizens of another nation.

That's the way I see it.

[EEDUDE]

Nick I think you have a point.

But until employers are forced to collect payroll taxes on these "guest workers", they aren't doing anything to help shore up our entitlement funding.

In addition, not having to collect payroll taxes gives employers an unfair edge and is driving down wages in a very destructive way.

I happen to like most of the Mexicans that I have met. They are generally honest, hardworking, and industrious people.

I have no problem with a guest worker program as long as we beat the hell out of those employers who are cheating and hurting everyone (including the illegals) in the process.

[Fatalis]

It's babies or immigrants, folks. Take your pick.

We need immigrants, but we don't need illegal aliens.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: We cannot arrive at 2025 with two workers per retiree.

It makes a lot of sense to have these millions of young workers helping by paying taxes.

But paying taxes to whom? The guest workers' source countries or the host country.

I've run across a lot of discussion about "economic diaspora," a developing country's "nation beyond borders."

Right now the source countries depend upon remittances, both individual families and "group" remittances to government entities. They are looking at something more reliable.

Why wouldn't the source country say, "Hey! You developed countries get the benefit of our citizens' cheap labor -- we want something too! We want to tax their income you get benefits enough."

That's the kind of stuff I've run across (googling can be dangerous).

Totalization is already a fact. I believe that there is also serious discussion about giving ILLEGAL aliens SSA credits for prior years -- it can be done. The SSA has the info in a suspense file with the phony and stolen SSNs and earnings statement, along with the employer ID.

So why wouldn't taxing income go the same way as totalization sends SS money? Toward the guest worker and his source country?

[nj26]

"It's babies or immigrants, folks. Take your pick. We cannot arrive at 2025 with two workers per retiree."

We open the border with Syria and Jordan, and there won't be a United States of America in 2025.

[Dat Mon]

"It's babies or immigrants, folks. Take your pick. We cannot arrive at 2025 with two workers per retiree."

We have a future demographic problem...that much is true. Has any government official talked about this problem as you are doing?

Are we prepared to do socio-political-economic engineering on a never before tried scale over the next 10 years to try to arrive at a solution? Is the solution truly beneficial to America in the long run...or just the best of several bad solutions?

Do we trust the government to have the wisdom to make difficult but necessary choices along the way...or merely politically expedient ones.

Do the apparent failures to date of enforcement of existing laws, as well as nonsense PC statements from HSA administrators such as Asa Hutchinson provide a warm feeling that future programs will be administered and enforced according to the laws?

Don't know about you...but I want to see some numbers...analysis...economic and demographic studies that support a guest worker program.

I want Bush to be honest about our hard choices and bring this issue to the American people. I want to see a due diligent effort to restrict the existing illegal border activity, and prosecute employers who are breaking the laws NOW.

[WRhine]

It's babies or immigrants, folks. Take your pick. We cannot arrive at 2025 with two workers per retiree.

Jeez. Another republican so-called conservative recommending that our government continue to allow America to be invaded by millions of 3rd world peasants every year so we can “maybe” float the actuarially bankrupt democrat welfare programs (SS/Medicaid/Medicare) for another generation. Forget about Reforming these programs. It is so much more politically expedient to put a happy face on the unmitigated disaster of illegal immigration.

Hey Smart Guy, what happens in 2030 when the next MUCH larger generation starts to retire? Are we going to import China, India along with whoever is left in Mexico so there are enough workers to make good on FDR's and LBJ's old Ponzi Schemes.

I have an idea: how about we FIX those GD Democrat fraud ridden fiascoes so they don't require a perpetual increase in our population to work. A fix that is actuarially sound and does not necessitate that America surrender its sovereignty to the 3rd World to pay off the Grampas and Grannies of the future.

If only democrats fought for the republican agenda like many republicans do for the democrats' agenda.

[Tribune7]

Just be glad our immigrants are from a basically Christian country, and they don't come here with orders from God to kill us all.

A voice of reason.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Just be glad our immigrants are from a basically Christian country, and they don't come here with orders from God to kill us all.

You should try getting out more Nick. Lots going on. Did you know for instance that Texas has one of the fastest growing Muslim population in the country? Something like 100,000 and counting have poured into the Houston area alone.

Wasn't it Bush that said Islam is a religion of peace ?

Check this Bush quote out Nick.

America treasures the relationship we have with our many Muslim friends, and we respect the vibrant faith of Islam which inspires countless individuals to lead lives of honesty, integrity, and morality. This year, may Eid also be a time in which we recognize the values of progress, pluralism, and acceptance that bind us together as a Nation and a global community. By working together to advance mutual understanding, we point the way to a brighter future for all."

President Bush December 5, 2002

[Joe Hadenuf]

Remember Nick. Texas now has one of the fastest growing muslim populations in the country.

President Bush said:

"Islam brings hope and comfort to millions of people in my country, and to more than a billion people worldwide. Ramadan is also an occasion to remember that Islam gave birth to a rich civilization of learning that has benefited mankind."

President Bush. Eid al-Fitr Greeting to Muslims around the World December 4, 2002

[Joe Hadenuf]

Just be glad our immigrants are from a basically Christian country, and they don't come here with orders from God to kill us all.

Remember Nick. Texas now has one of the fastest growing muslim populations in the country.

Here's another Bush quote.

"Islam is a faith that brings comfort to people. It inspires them to lead lives based on honesty, and justice, and compassion."

Remarks by President George W. Bush on U.S. Humanitarian Aid to Afghanistan

President Bush, Dwight David Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Washington, D.C. October 11, 2002