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Costco policy bans guns!
OFCC Action Alert (email alert) | 12/14/04 | KimRife

Posted on 12/14/2004 9:18:33 AM PST by KimRife

Saw enough "Costco" Topics here, figured there would be some interest: Received this from Chad Baus of OFCC yesterday:

The following was sent to OFCC - writer isn't a CCW-Talker, but said I could post this sans his name:

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:27:56 -0500 Subject: Costco To: info@ofcc.net

Hello,

Costco as a CPZ yesterday. I also e-mailed them to find out why. I am forwarding their response.

Thanks, XXXXXXX

>From: customerservice@costco.com >Subject: RE: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions [APZ2004120900003499] >Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:47:42 -0800 > >To reference this e-mail in the future, please make >note of the tracking number listed in the subject >heading. This message may be monitored for quality >assurance. >--------------------------------------------------- > > >Dear XXXXXXX, > >Thank you for e-mailing Costco Wholesale. > >I am sorry but that is a corporate wide policy sent >down from our CEO. > >Thank you. > >Sincerely, > >Elizabeth H. >Member Service Phone Agent >ext.1716 >customerservice@costco.com > > -----Original Message----- >From: IMCReply >Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:20 AM >To: Elizabeth Hovanes >Subject: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions > >Note this message was submitted through the costco.com >web site customer >suggestion page on 12/9/2004 12:00:00 AM at >09:19:10.1535192. >==================================================== >Comment/Suggestion/Request/Question Text: > > I went to your store in Mayfield Heights, Ohio >yesterday. I noticed that a sign prohibiting concealed >weapons permit holders from bringing their weapons into >the store. Is this a corporate policy? Do >you do this >in other states that allow concealed carry? Ohio is one >of forty five states that allow it. Ohio law requires >individuals with these permits to take extensive >training and undergo background check. >These are not the people you should worry about. A >person with criminal intent will ignore that sign. I am >also a member of BJ's and Sam's >Club. Neither of them >have posted these signs. If this sign stays up, >I will not be renewing my menbership. > >I have forwarded this information to the Ohioans for >Concealed Carry >website. They will place your store in >the "do not patronize" list. >=====================================================

It would be GREAT if anyone in a state OTHER THAN Ohio, would stop by the Costco nearest you next time you are in the area. See if they have a sign. If yes OR no post it here, or e-mail me at:kkacer@catlover.com with the address sate and your zip code (I can find the store zip that way and makes it easier for you).

And if anyone would care to let Costco know what you think: Member Services: 800-774-2678

Web address: http://www.costco.com

Costco's corporate mailing address is: PO Box 34331 Seattle, WA 98124

Costco's corporate offices are located at: 999 Lake Drive Issaquah, WA 98027

Have at.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; costco; firearms; guns; protest
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To: Conspiracy Guy

If you own an apartment house, it's private property also. Try excluding renters based on race or creed. Talk about not understanding something.


161 posted on 12/14/2004 6:47:41 PM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: NJ_gent
but all it takes is a glance or a bulge to tip off their security.

You'd think that, but in most cases, you'd be wrong. The President of my IDPA club works for a congresscritter. SHE has been in the immediate presence of Governor Jeb Bush, except then he wasn't the Gov yet, but he was a son to a sitting President and surrounded by Secret Service. She was carrying a Glock 21 45 (no mouse gun!) in a special concealed compartment in her purse and they never caught on. I have carried concealed many times in the presence of federal agents and street cops and not gotten a second glance, and I was paying discrete attention to them! Face it, 99.9% of the population are not that observant.

162 posted on 12/14/2004 7:18:09 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: KimRife
Denny's restaurant in South Florida tried that crap and the local gun clubs organized a very effective campaign against the practice: We'd all show up at a restaurant and ask for a huge table to seat all thirty of us. Usually you could just see the manager's eyes go KA-ching! as he'd rush to take care of us. Then one of the group would happen to "see" the sign banning concealed carry and we'd get all indignant and storm out. Then we'd go to the next establishment and do it all over again. Very effective. That policy was discontinued within two months.
163 posted on 12/14/2004 7:21:35 PM PST by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: dmz; Auntie Dem

Classic straw man argument, dmz. You must be new here.

To equate shi**ing in someone's yard with an individual carrying a concealed weapon for self defense purposes (and perfectly legally) is way past ludicrous.

Come back and try again when you want to play with the grown ups, son.


164 posted on 12/14/2004 7:23:47 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: packrat01

oops...you're right...thanks.


165 posted on 12/14/2004 7:55:35 PM PST by FrankR (Don't let the bastards wear you down...)
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To: Poohbah

Hello Poohbah,
I talked to my dad and then looked it up on a search engine. In the only article I could find it had my dad's name and mine since it said something like "who was shopping with his daughter _ and ..." So if you don't mind I will not give you details so as to keep my private identity. It is a true story so please believe me. No one was killed in the shootout and my dad said that why it started had something to do with drugs and the employee who was shot was just in the wrong place. That is when I decided I wanted to be a LEO. Sorry about that and please forgive!
CowgirlCop


166 posted on 12/14/2004 8:21:57 PM PST by FreedomHasACost
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To: KimRife
Costco are idiots, and in most states (like here in Florida), their "no guns" edict has no legal authority whatsoever.

A Free man or woman is under no legal or moral obligation to obey their illegitimate edicts.

In fact, as Americans we have an obligation to resist all forms of tyranny, regardless of the source.

And "big business" is becoming quite tyrannical these days. Much of the statist agenda has been implemented via big korporations. Despite this agenda being rejected at the ballot box, the statist politicians are enacting it through the back door, since their policies favor big business.

There's been several of these "private property vs. gun rights" threads in the last few weeks, so I'm not going to rehash all the arguements here.

I will simply making the following observation: it is clear to me is that there are a lot of posters on this forum that 1) don't understand the basic nature of our Rights (one even stated that the right to self-defense was non-existent since it was enumerated in the Constitution), and 2) simply don't like us peasants carrying guns.

Many so-called "conservatives" here oppose CCW. They oppose open carry. And in those states that do have CCW, they are always defending the onerous restrictions in those states which do nothing except hassle honest citizens. Some of their rhetoric resembles something Sarah Brady or her ilk would say.

This entire issue isn't about "private property". It's about the Rights of an individual to self-defense and the means of self-defense.

I've butted heads with many posters on this thread before, and I can promise you that they are among the first to cheer when the JBTs knock the door of Joe Six Pack for playing his music too loud, or not paying taxes on his "private property".

167 posted on 12/14/2004 8:48:23 PM PST by Mulder (“The spirit of resistance is so valuable, that I wish it to be always kept alive" Thomas Jefferson)
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To: NJ_gent
Would you complain if their security removed you from the store?

FYI - Not just being removed - It'a a fourth degree misdemeanor here in Ohio "criminal tresspassing"

168 posted on 12/15/2004 4:31:47 AM PST by Captiva (DVC)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
No kidding. This person took safety and competency courses to carry a concealed firearm but won't spend a half hour leaning basic HTML? Odd that.

Computer snob alert.

169 posted on 12/15/2004 4:33:31 AM PST by Captiva (DVC)
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To: P-Chan Penny
"why in the world would you feel a need to bring a firearm into a Costco building?"

I won't list all the potential scenario's that could happen between the parking lot and the employee break room in the back of the store, but here's just a sample:

Disgruntled, X-employee decides its "payback time" and at 3:00 in the afternoon, (ignores the sign), walks into the store to "get even". The whacko opens fire and there's one person in the check-out line who just happens to be a CC permit holder, armed, loaded, trained, and wanting to live.....

Now imagine all those "gone postal" or armed robbery stories you've heard in the news and imagine the alternative outcome had there been ONE person who was present, that could have stopped the perpetrator. I personally do not believe that I am in a safety zone just because I'm inside a store.

170 posted on 12/15/2004 4:56:34 AM PST by two23
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To: paul51
Finding any four leaf clovers out there in left field?

What does racism have to do with the rights of a property owner? If I own apartments I can limit the number of cars, prohibit satellite TV, boats on trailers, undriveable vehicles, etc... but no I can't deny renters based on race or gender.

I am a lifetime member of the NRA and believe in RKBA. I do however support the rights of a business owner to not allow you to carry on their premises. I also support landowners who don't allow you to hunt or even enter their property.

I don't shop Costco and never will because they support the DNC. But I do support their right to post signs prohibiting guns in their stores.
171 posted on 12/15/2004 4:59:45 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Proud member of Generation Jones. Born Jan 15, 1954. I was not a hippy or a liberal.)
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To: RightOnline

Nope, not new here, dad.

You see the issue as 2nd amendment, I see it as a matter of respect for private property. Of course my example was ludicrous, it was meant as such. Levity is apparently not one of the tools on your belt.



172 posted on 12/15/2004 6:12:25 AM PST by dmz
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To: KimRife
Do you think that they should be able to "remove me" for wearing a t-shirt that says, "God Loves You" or "George Bush in '04" or John Kerry in '04"? (pick the one you'd be the least against ;)

Yes. Do you think you have the right to hold a political rally in Costco's parking lot?

See, I don't. In ANY of those cases. Shoot even an "Allah Loves You" is okay w/me

If you own your own business, I fully support your right to allow whatever t-shirt wearer you want onto your property. However, I also support the right of other property-owners to ban political or religious messages from their property.

Think of it this way- should a mall have the right to kick people out for wearing gang colors?

173 posted on 12/15/2004 7:23:32 AM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: paul51
If you own an apartment house, it's private property also. Try excluding renters based on race or creed. Talk about not understanding something.

Depending on how many units are in the rental property (less than 5, IIRC) you are allowed to discriminate based on race or creed.

Race and creed are different from gun ownership. We consider race and religion to be innate conditions (granted, one can change their religion). A black person cannot change their race to accomodate a property owner's rules and asking a Jew to change their religion would constitute a massive burden.

On the other hand, asking a gun owner to not bring their gun onto Costco's property for the hour or so that they are there creates no burden on them.

174 posted on 12/15/2004 7:28:18 AM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: KimRife
"Do you think that they should be able to "remove me" for wearing a t-shirt that says,"

What if the t-shirt says something like, "All N***ers must die", or something similarly offensive to the point that it's likely to cause violence? Check out tshirthell.com and you'll see a whole range of shirts offensive enough to cause major problems. I laugh at most of them, but others would probably have far different reactions; perhaps even violent reactions. If the store can indeed remove someone for wearing a shirt which is that offensive, then we're agreed that they can enforce a dress code in their policy. Most stores require that a shirt, shoes, etc be worn to enter the store. Entering the store naked doesn't prevent the store from doing business, but I doubt you'd agree that people ought to be able to walz on into stores naked without being asked to leave.

I agree with you that large mega-corps often abuse the power they have. Comcast is a perfect example of this. Having stomped out virtually all other competition, most of their customers are left with the options of Comcast or nothing. I think that's rather unhealthy for the marketplace. That's why I do support the old Teddy Roosevelt trust-busting laws. When one company reigns supreme in a market and obliterates any potential competition with anti-competitive practices, the rules of capitalism begin to break down.

"Legally carrying a concealed firearm is NOT "interfering" with business."

Your bringing a gun into my home doesn't interfer with my living there, but don't I still have the right, as a private property owner, to tell you to either take the gun home or just leave entirely? By the logic you've presented, I should be able to take my dog into any store I want. It's not illegal to have a dog, and so long as it's not chewing up products or going to the bathroom on the floor, it's not interfering with their business. Being naked in the local WalMart doesn't interfer with their business either, but I should certainly hope they'd toss out anyone attempting to shop nude.
175 posted on 12/15/2004 7:44:44 AM PST by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: ExSoldier

While you're absolutely right that it wouldn't be caught most of the time, it only takes one moment of reaching the wrong way or turning the wrong way to reveal yourself. Someone might get away with it 99 times and get nailed on the 100th time. They might never get caught, but it stands to reason that some will probably get caught carrying concealed weapons in violation of the policy.


176 posted on 12/15/2004 7:48:28 AM PST by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: Captiva
"FYI - Not just being removed - It'a a fourth degree misdemeanor here in Ohio "criminal tresspassing""

That seems perfectly appropriate to me. It gives some teeth to private property owners' enforcement of their rights without going ridiculously overboard.
177 posted on 12/15/2004 7:49:45 AM PST by NJ_gent (Conservatism begins at home. Security begins at the border. Please, someone, secure our borders.)
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To: KimRife

It's a concealed weapon for God's sake. How will they know if a person is carrying if the weapon is concealed? It's like a sign prohibiting people from bringing their seeing eye dogs into the premises.


178 posted on 12/15/2004 7:52:03 AM PST by Casloy
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To: Casloy
It's a concealed weapon for God's sake. How will they know if a person is carrying if the weapon is concealed? It's like a sign prohibiting people from bringing their seeing eye dogs into the premises.

They have the right to determine the conditions for you entering their private property. You have the right to decide if you accept those terms and still patronize their business, or instead take your business elsewhere while calling them a bunch of dumbass anti-American anti-2nd Amendment anti-self-defense numbnuts who will probably cry the loudest for more gun control if a shooting rampage breaks out in one of their stores.

179 posted on 12/15/2004 7:54:32 AM PST by dirtboy (Tagline temporarily out of commission due to excessive intake of gin-soaked raisins)
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To: two23

Your post goes on the assumption that Costco Employees are poised and ready to go "postal". Having worked here for almost 10 years, I have not only never seen signs, but I have never even heard rumors about it. And one thing that travels fast in a Costco it's a rumor. I just can't bring myself to feel that I need my gun with me at all times to feel safe. Maybe it's because I am a horrible shot... lucky to hit the target 5 times out of 6.


180 posted on 12/15/2004 8:23:08 AM PST by P-Chan Penny (When Informed Women Vote, Republicans Win!!!!!)
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