Costco policy bans guns!

OFCC Action Alert (email alert) | 12/14/04 | KimRife

[KimRife]

Saw enough "Costco" Topics here, figured there would be some interest: Received this from Chad Baus of OFCC yesterday:

The following was sent to OFCC - writer isn't a CCW-Talker, but said I could post this sans his name:

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:27:56 -0500 Subject: Costco To: info@ofcc.net

Hello,

Costco as a CPZ yesterday. I also e-mailed them to find out why. I am forwarding their response.

Thanks, XXXXXXX

>From: customerservice@costco.com >Subject: RE: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions [APZ2004120900003499] >Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:47:42 -0800 > >To reference this e-mail in the future, please make >note of the tracking number listed in the subject >heading. This message may be monitored for quality >assurance. >--------------------------------------------------- > > >Dear XXXXXXX, > >Thank you for e-mailing Costco Wholesale. > >I am sorry but that is a corporate wide policy sent >down from our CEO. > >Thank you. > >Sincerely, > >Elizabeth H. >Member Service Phone Agent >ext.1716 >customerservice@costco.com > > -----Original Message----- >From: IMCReply >Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 9:20 AM >To: Elizabeth Hovanes >Subject: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions > >Note this message was submitted through the costco.com >web site customer >suggestion page on 12/9/2004 12:00:00 AM at >09:19:10.1535192. >==================================================== >Comment/Suggestion/Request/Question Text: > > I went to your store in Mayfield Heights, Ohio >yesterday. I noticed that a sign prohibiting concealed >weapons permit holders from bringing their weapons into >the store. Is this a corporate policy? Do >you do this >in other states that allow concealed carry? Ohio is one >of forty five states that allow it. Ohio law requires >individuals with these permits to take extensive >training and undergo background check. >These are not the people you should worry about. A >person with criminal intent will ignore that sign. I am >also a member of BJ's and Sam's >Club. Neither of them >have posted these signs. If this sign stays up, >I will not be renewing my menbership. > >I have forwarded this information to the Ohioans for >Concealed Carry >website. They will place your store in >the "do not patronize" list. >=====================================================

It would be GREAT if anyone in a state OTHER THAN Ohio, would stop by the Costco nearest you next time you are in the area. See if they have a sign. If yes OR no post it here, or e-mail me at:kkacer@catlover.com with the address sate and your zip code (I can find the store zip that way and makes it easier for you).

And if anyone would care to let Costco know what you think: Member Services: 800-774-2678

Web address: http://www.costco.com

Costco's corporate mailing address is: PO Box 34331 Seattle, WA 98124

Costco's corporate offices are located at: 999 Lake Drive Issaquah, WA 98027

Have at.

[Poohbah]

Idiot. Nothing is being destroyed by my carrying a concealed weapon into that store. Your argument is ludicrous.

You've escalated to destruction of property in retaliation for the owner doing something you dislike. So you've now made it clear that the property owner's right to his property is contingent on his doing only as you wish, under threat of destroying his property. In that case, you should have no objection to your property being destroyed if you do something that someone else doesn't like.

I still preserve my first amendment rights if I enter onto the property of another and speak respectfully, cordially and politely.

BZZZZT! Wrong answer. If you respectfully, cordially and politely advocate electing Hillary Clinton President in 2008, I will order you to leave my property, and you will either comply or be arrested for trespassing.

If I start yelling "You stupid mother*@#*@#, you ought to be flogged and your chidlren #$%&**!..." I should expect to be immediately tossed from and forever banned from that property.

If I enter into a gun "banning" store carrying my weapon and never display it or fire it I haven't hurt anyone, and both the store's rights and mine have been protected.

To the contrary, you have engaged in trespassing. You just weren't caught doing so. At some point, you will be, and you will be ejected from the store.

[Poohbah]

The first time I was at a Costco was about ten years ago when I was around ten. We were visiting a friend in CA and my Dad and I went along to Costco. As we were headed out some guy opened fire. My dad grabbed his concealed and shot the guy...he did not kill him...and the guy only shot two people. One of them was a store employee, you would think they would want help in a situation like that rather than all the guns be banned.

Location of event, and approximate date: I need to do a search of the news archives.

[Modernman]

You don't seem to have any problem disrespecting my right to self defense. You don't seem to understand that if every private business owner were allowed to, and did, post stupid gun ban signs, then your right to self defense would not exist--anywhere.

And your point is? Even if this did happen, you still miss the point that a private property owner has no duty to help you enjoy your rights.

But then maybe that's not such a bad idea. Darwin's law would soon reduce the population to Outlaws and Scofflaws.

Where the heck do you live where getting shot at the local Costco is an actual danger for the average person?

[mvpel]

Where the heck do you live where getting shot at the local Costco is an actual danger for the average person?

If you only carry your firearm where you think there's an "actual danger" of having to use it, then odds are you won't have it when you need it.

And besides, it's a sensible policy to avoid going to places where you think there might be an "actual danger."

[FrankR]

Send the Sierra Club an anonymous email stating that COSTCO is built on endangered wetlands, and the mating habits of the spotted tree snail are at risk.

Then write the EPA and let them know that portions of the building leak hydrogen dioxide and it could be an enviromental hazard.

If all that fails, just boycott the $h!t out of them.

[FreedomHasACost]

Okay, I'll get them for you. It was sometime in the spring of 1994 and in CA. I will ask my dad exactly when and where when I talk to him tonight as I do not remember, I was just 9 actually and it SCARED me out of my mind!!! I'll get that for you and might even look it up myself on news archives, that would be interesting :)

[Conspiracy Guy]

The FR Gen X posse is a bunch of generalizers. Turn the tables on them and they freak out. My kids are Gen X and they think.

[Chemist_Geek]

You don't seem to have any problem disrespecting my right to self defense. You don't seem to understand that if every private business owner were allowed to, and did, post stupid gun ban signs, then your right to self defense would not exist--anywhere.

You're confusing the RKBA with a right to self-defense. The two are not the same thing.

[Conspiracy Guy]

Nope. But a business is in reality private property. Property rights are under enough pressure from the government. If a business owner and I don't agree I go elsewhere. I hate smoking bans imposed by government. It should be up to the business owner. I put gun rights in the same category. If I don't want you bringing a gun into my business, that is my right. I carry but I respect the private property rights of the owner of the business.

[Sender]

I would never hold it against Costco employees that their CEO gave millions to defeat Bush. It's not their fault. However I can choose to spend my money elsewhere if the CEO is going to give some of it to the Democrats.

[Poohbah]

If a business owner and I don't agree I go elsewhere.

That's WAY too conservative approach for Free Republic (c8

[Conspiracy Guy]

Some days I think it is.

[P-Chan Penny]

Yup. :o) I definitely understand that!

[Conspiracy Guy]

Now that is a reason to not shop at Costco. And since we don't have one here I'll have to wait to not shop there.

[LibTeeth]

Re;"To the contrary, you have engaged in trespassing. You just weren't caught doing so. At some point, you will be, and you will be ejected from the store."

This is the crux of the matter. A proper control system requires not just decision rules, but a detector, a feedback loop, and an adequate forcing function. Detection is never a problem for real crimes with real victims. This type of store rule doesn't really attempt to pre-empt the harmless carrying of arms, as much as it attempts to prevent real violent crimes. Alas, it fails in both desires unless the store owner wants to use medal detectors, or random pat downs (both can be subverted for criminal mischief).

I understand in Texas the law requires a very large, hard to not notice, specific and obnoxious sign in order for property owners to legally post against arms carry. Many stores simply put up non-legal signs so they can have it both ways. The educated ccw carrier can legally ignore it, the sheep can feel safer, and the business doesn't have to waste time and money on procedures and methods that do not provide real security, insult portions of their client base, and would waste judicial horsepower if legal eforcement were a temptation.

[RS]

"If I enter into a gun "banning" store carrying my weapon and never display it or fire it I haven't hurt anyone, and both the store's rights and mine have been protected."

Absurd ... trespassing is just fine if the owner dosen't catch you ...

[TC Rider]

a corporate wide policy sent >down from our CEO.

Why would you shop there anyway?

The CEO is a major lefty and huge donor to the Kerry campaign and others.

Vote with your feet.

[Sender]

LOL, I don't have one nearby either, it's about 20 miles away. So I can both save a long drive and not shop there!

[NJ_gent]

"Putting up a sign doesn't ban anything."

Sure it does - ban just doesn't mean what you think it means.

"The perp would be prosecuted whether there was a gun "banning" sign or not."

Yes, those who break the law are prosecuted. That's irrelevant to our discussion about the rights of property owners to decide what people can bring onto their property.

"The statistical probability of someone being shot in a gun "banning" store are actually somewhat higher after the "banning" sign is posted than they were before."

Cite source please?

[Auntie Dem]

Cite source please?

The Journal of Common Sense, December, 2004 pg 56.

Now cite the source of your contrary information.