ACLU Files Suit in Pa. Over Evolution

FOX News ^

[wkdaysoff]

HARRISBURG, Pa. — The state American Civil Liberties Union (search) plans to file a federal lawsuit Tuesday against a Pennsylvania school district that is requiring students to learn about alternatives to the theory of evolution (search).

The ACLU said its lawsuit will be the first to challenge whether public schools should teach "intelligent design," which holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by some higher power....

[MEGoody]

"You CAN observe and reasonably calculate erosion on hard stone over time."

Yes, you can observe for a time, maybe even years, but not thousands of years. Yes, you can calculate, presuming that all variables and their effects are known.

"That is some glaring quote mining you've got going on."

Whatever that is supposed to mean.

[js1138]

Don't let your reading of scripture get out of sync with science.

I think it is reasonable to take new pronouncements in science with a grain of salt. String theory is not established science. Global warming is a political football.

Evolution is 140+ years old as a concept. Geology is decades older. Radiometric dating is well established. Denying these is just flat-earthism.

[Right Wing Professor]

Even earlier than this, in 1951, Pius XII accepted a universe at least billions of years old.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P12EXIST.HTM

[Shryke]

Yes, you can calculate, presuming that all variables and their effects are known.

AH! We agree. You realize that those calculations would preclude 4000 years, yes?

[PatrickHenry]

I believe the pope endorses any theory as long it is not atheistic in nature and does not void Adam and Eve.

I don't think that's his position at all. If the church accepts evolution (and they do) then they're way past Adam and Eve. They learned a big lesson from their experience with Galileo, and they're determined never to err like that again. They don't want the educated world to pass them by as if they were a pack of flat-earthers. They clearly intend to continue in business for a few thousand more years, and they understand that's impossible if they look like fools.

The Vatican has the PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES. It's an impressive bunch. They're apparently quite serious about keeping up with the real world. My understanding is that they have no problem with any physical science at all, provided it doesn't contradict their teachings about man's spiritual nature and his relationship with God. That's why evolution is no issue for them. They know what they're doing.

[PatrickHenry]

I think it is reasonable to take new pronouncements in science with a grain of salt.

We all do that. It can take decades for a spiffy new hypothesis to gather enough experimental (or observational) support to be taken seriously by most scientists in the field.

[PatrickHenry]

Even earlier than this, in 1951, Pius XII accepted a universe at least billions of years old.

Thanks for that. I'll look it over. It may find its way into the List-O-Links. If so, this is the only credit you'll ever get, so live it up.

[atlaw]

"Give me a scenario where a vote resulting in 68% majority would be found unconstitutional? Give me a break!"

Just noticed this one. LOL. You're not seriously suggesting that majority votes can override constitutional protections, are you? As the old saying goes, 51% of the people in this country cannot vote to have the remaining 49% boiled in oil.

[Oztrich Boy]

It pays to increase your word power

Your word for today is: "facetious"

[WildTurkey]

Of course no one lived that long since Adam was the first person to ever live!

At least on Earth.

[WildTurkey]

You are too kind.

[Concerned]

WKDAYSOFF WROTE TO SHODOWMAN99: "Both, in my opinion, take a huge amount of FAITH to believe in. Evolution is simply a different type of faith, wrapped up in a “religion” of science. "

I used to be a "billions/millions of years" Christian, but after finally really looking into the arguments of "the other side," I am now 100% convinced of a literal 6 days of creation.

Regarding creation and evolution, AIG (http://www.answersingenesis.org) has MANY great VHS/DVDs. I particularly like the one about "Lucy," the alleged ape-person. They tear the "Lucy" MYTH to shreads for the ABSOLUTE FRAUD it is. Watching the PBS clip of "Lucy" is laughable and a death-sentence to the fraud of the lucy myth.

Check out:

http://shop4.gospelcom.net/epages/AIGUS.storefront/en/product/20-5-053

http://shop4.gospelcom.net/epages/AIGUS.storefront/en/product/30-1-128

[Concerned]

The following are really good as well. The first one refers to the differences between the actual TRANSCRIPT of the Scopes Trial and the movie "Inherit the Wind" and shows what a FRAUD the movie was and how the FACTS were virtually 100% OPPOSITE of the movie.

http://shop4.gospelcom.net/epages/AIGUS.storefront/en/product/30-9-032

http://www.answersingenesis.org/search/default.aspx?qt=scopes&loadpage=query.html&charset=iso-8859-1&btnSearchGo=GO

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/scopes.asp

[BMCDA]

You agreed that a totally imaginary God would serve the same purpose. So it doesn't matter whether he exists or not. That's Atheism.

Actually to be fair he didn't say that it doesn't matter.

What I found confusing, however, was that in the light of his earlier posts it does matter to him that a god should be invented if one doesn't exist.
If, as he claimed in this earlier post, he can't see what's wrong with murder or rape if his god doesn't exist, why invent one in that case? Surely not for himself.
So if there's nothing wrong with murder and rape because this god doesn't exist, why is it important that the others believe there is a god who doesn't condone murder and rape?

[Heartlander]

How could allele frequencies in the gene pool of a population of organisms change if there are no organisms, no populations, no alleles and no gene pool?

I think you are missing the smaller picture. IOW in the context of OOL; self-replicating molecules, RNA/DNA, lipids, etc… For natural science to explain even the simple emergence of Mycoplasma gentalium (a parasite) something must occur within the information transfer of many organic self-replicating molecules.

If you say, ‘no populations of organisms – no evolution’ how and when does this whole party get started? The first organic molecules and organisms were self-replicating… Do viruses evolve?

[Heartlander]

Why should humans invent ‘why’ in regard to objective matter that comprises us and surrounds us?
Does the subjective matter to the objective matter? Who invented subjective matter and why?

[shuckmaster]

self identified Scriptural Geologists claimed that the canyon downstream of Niagra Falls would have been cut in only a few thousand years (Yeah foolish argument, but it was 150 years ago, people were dumb then).

I don't have a direct quote or reference handy but. I saw a program on either History or Discovery a few months back & they were explaining that the bulk of the canyon (through the es's part) could have been cut in an amazingly short time. Something like 10 years or less? Once a section of the hard rock gave way, the water ripped through a very long section of the soft sediment behind it until it got back to a straighter channel & erosion slowed down to a more normal pace.

I didn't take notes at the time to get my quotes accurate but I remember saying to myself, "WOW, that would have been a tourist attraction"!

[Right in Wisconsin]

Your adding into it. A vote on the issues perhaps as the "issue" may be nonconstitutional, a vote on a party, not likely. Especially in light of a 68% favorable return.

[Right in Wisconsin]

Did I just hear the alien theory pop up again??

[FranApple]

Danae The ACL-PU was on WSBA910 radio today and the rep said this case will be used as a National example against religeon in schools. They told Dover that they can put Intelligent Design in a World Cultures class but not Science.
People across the USA need to join Dover in this fight and help put the ACL-PU out of business.

A friend found the following article.
Evolution and intelligent design Jonathan Wells
Discovery Institute
June 1, 1997

http://www.iconsofevolution.com/embedJonsArticles.php3?id=77

Dover School District has accepted the offer for Defending them from a legal firm.
Thanks
FranApple