Posted on 12/12/2004 12:21:53 PM PST by mac_truck
Students at one of the area's largest Christian schools are reading a controversial booklet that critics say whitewashes Southern slavery with its view that slaves lived "a life of plenty, of simple pleasures." Leaders at Cary Christian School say they are not condoning slavery by using "Southern Slavery, As It Was," a booklet that attempts to provide a biblical justification for slavery and asserts that slaves weren't treated as badly as people think.
Principal Larry Stephenson said the school is only exposing students to different ideas, such as how the South justified slavery. He said the booklet is used because it is hard to find writings that are both sympathetic to the South and explore what the Bible says about slavery.
"You can have two different sides, a Northern perspective and a Southern perspective," he said.
'SOUTHERN SLAVERY, AS IT WAS' Here are some excerpts from the booklet:
* "To say the least, it is strange that the thing the Bible condemns (slave-trading) brings very little opprobrium upon the North, yet that which the Bible allows (slave-ownership) has brought down all manner of condemnation upon the South." (page 22)
* "As we have already mentioned, the 'peculiar institution' of slavery was not perfect or sinless, but the reality was a far cry from the horrific descriptions given to us in modern histories." (page 22)
* "Slavery as it existed in the South was not an adversarial relationship with pervasive racial animosity. Because of its dominantly patriarchal character, it was a relationship based upon mutual affection and confidence." (page 24)
* "Slave life was to them a life of plenty, of simple pleasures, of food, clothes, and good medical care." (page 25)
(Excerpt) Read more at newsobserver.com ...
Why do you feel that it's not appropriate to compare slavery to the holocaust? Given your extensive reading then I'm really surprised you would think that the black experience of US slavery and the African slave trade in general was as you put it 'sucked but not genocide'. Who exactly are you to decide that?
Now this is good you've studied Civil War history but have you ever said what you just said to a black person's face? How would you feel if a black person belittled the Jewish holocaust and said what happened in the US slave trade was worse than the Jewish holocaust? I know how I react when some of my customers say crap like that, and it's NOT pretty. However, if you're not going to give the same respect to black Americans and their experiences in this country as well as the MILLIONS of slaves that DIED not survived BUT DIED then I have nothing further to say to you Alouette.
Noble words. Too bad the confederates didn't live up to such sentiments when it came to the loyal Union people of East Tennessee. But the rebels refused to allow East Tennessee to secede and remain in the Union. Failing at that, they did not even respect East Tennessee's wishes to at least be "left alone". I guess such desires are only deemed legitimate for the slave owning aristocracy and not for ordinary Americans.
I don't believe that history will support that interpretation.
History won't support that interpretation, eh? Okay, give your interpretation of both the Texas and Mississippi secession declarations and their views of slavery contained therein.
Be sure to get back to me when you do.
"Too bad the confederates didn't live up to such sentiments when it came to the loyal Union people of East Tennessee."
There are a lot of problems with your argument.
Firstly, "East Tennessee" was not a political entity with borders and a government. The original 13 states ratified the Constitution as states, and every state that later joined did so as a state. Dissenting neighborhoods were overruled. It is reasonable, therefore, that seceding states do so as states.
Even today an American is allowed to renounce his citizenship, effectively seceding from the US on an individual basis. He is not, however, allowed to take any US territory with him when he goes. The state of Tennessee having decided by majority vote to secede, it is not reasonable that they should allow dissenters to take part of Tennessee with them. Dissenters were not, of course, held against their will. They were free to move to a state that remained in the Union.
The legal principal that allowed states to secede does not generalize to neighborhoods or individuals.
"I guess such desires are only deemed legitimate for the slave owning aristocracy and not for ordinary Americans."
The "slave-owning aristocracy" was outnumbered in Tenessee by "ordinary Americans." Anything done by popular vote was voted for by more ordinary Americans than aristocrats.
"Okay, give your interpretation of both the Texas and Mississippi secession declarations"
I can point to more than two 1940s documents which would, taken out of historical context, make it appear that the only reason the US was at war with Japan was racism.
A responsible historian would not rely on documents drafted for public consumption in the passion of imminent warfare.
Nice try. In case you haven't noticed, I'm not talking about 1940. I'm talking about the secession declarations of those two States, which you still haven't answered.
Don't skirt the question. Answer it.
"However, if you're not going to give the same respect to black Americans and their experiences in this country"
How awful it would be to live in a society in which one couldn't even discuss whether the American slave trade was worse than the Holocaust, or vice versa.
No room for people who think that slavery was worse, and none for people who think the Holocaust was worse? We all must accept and obediently parrot some PC line that...that what? That they were both simultaneously the worst thing that ever happened in history, worse even than Stalin starving 20 million Ukranians? Or is it just that the question must never even be framed?
So you honestly believe that NO slaveowners treated their slaves well?
If you think that, I have some oceanfront property in West Texas, I will sell you cheap.
"Don't skirt the question. Answer it."
I not only answered it, I showed that it is a pointless and tendentious question to ask.
To point to a couple of pieces of high-flown political speechifying written in the heat of passion for public consumption, while ignoring the previous 240 years of history, is a truly bootless exercise.
It is as silly as pointing to 1940s propaganda as "proof" that the reason we went to war with Japan was racist hatred.
Nice try. What is required of you to form a valid analogy is two official statements by the United States Government declaring that the reason for going to war with Japan is that they're no-good g**ks.
That's NOT what I was saying at all. I've never heard a rational thinking black person say that slavery was worse than the holocaust. I've never at any time in this debate said that slavery was WORSE than the Jewish holocaust. I am saying some people shouldn't be mimizing and saying things the other way around either which is exactly what I have been reading in this thread. It's no worse and no less than the Armenian holocaust, the slaught of the Chinese, and those things you mentioned as well. I hasten to add what's going in the Sudan at this very minute.
I put a lot of thought into my posts. I have a WIDE variety of experiences and know a lot of different people and get input from people that some freepers may not otherwise have. If you have a disagree with something I say then fine. However, PC isn't one of my strongsuits.
This thread has been an eye opener. Thanks! LOL
Disgusting.
In terms of absolutes? Of course not. You know me better than that by now. I'm sure there were some owners who were more humane than others.
That does not take away the stain or stigma upon the condition, either.
"I've never at any time in this debate said that slavery was WORSE than the Jewish holocaust."
I didn't say you did.
"I am saying some people shouldn't be mimizing and saying things the other way around either which is exactly what I have been reading in this thread."
No, it's not. You haven't been reading anything of the kind. You have been reading efforts to see things for what they were, but reading them through some prism that makes those perfectly reasonable statements appear to be "minimizing" to you.
The effect of that is that you tell people they shouldn't be saying such things, which boils down to forbidding discussion of these issues.
"It's no worse and no less than the Armenian holocaust, the slaught of the Chinese, and those things you mentioned as well. I hasten to add what's going in the Sudan at this very minute."
Now, wait a minute: reason demands that those events could be ranked in terms of their horribilitude. They can't all be *equally* bad.
"I have a WIDE variety of experiences and know a lot of different people and get input from people that some freepers may not otherwise have."
On FR, those are not uncommon virtues.
"What is required of you to form a valid analogy is two official statements by the United States Government declaring that the reason for going to war with Japan is that they're no-good g**ks."
No, the two states referred to were not speaking for the CSA.
Besides, that's pretty much how the Japanese see FDR's "Day that will live in infamy" speech.
Nice try. Official documents are official documents.
We'll have to disagree and leave it at that. Have a good christmas and nye.
This has nothing to do with my personal feelings. This is a discussion of history. You can't compare slavery to the Holocaust except on an emotional level.
There is one significant difference which you seem to have overlooked. The issue of American slavery is completely in the past. There is no one alive today who experienced it. There is no one who wants to bring it back. Therefore I think it should be possible to study its different aspects, including the opinions of people who were in favor of it.
However there are still many people alive who have survived the Holocaust, and there are also many people who are determined to finish the job that Hitler started.
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