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Gun owners claim right to take their rifles to work
Telegraph ^ | 11/12/04 | Alec Russell in Valliant and Scott Heiser in Washington

Posted on 12/11/2004 6:07:04 AM PST by Mr. Mojo

Gun-toting, tough-talking, and anti-establishment to his muddy boot straps, Larry Mullens is an Oklahoman "good ole boy" personified.

He is also fast becoming a classic American folk hero as he takes centre stage in a revolt of gun owners that is reverberating in boardrooms across the United States. The son of one of the last of the old-style Wild West ranchers, he first fired a gun as a boy.

Now he carries his trusty Winchester in his pick-up on his way to work at a sawmill in case he comes across a coyote, a wild dog or even a wolf attacking his small herd of steers. Last year he lost five calves to wild dogs.

So it was perhaps not surprising that he was enraged when his previous employer fired him for breaking company security rules that banned guns from the company car park after they found a .38 pistol stashed behind the seat of his pick-up.

No one could have predicted that two years later he and his backers would claim an extraordinary revenge - a law allowing employees to keep guns in locked cars on company property.

Just two days after a gunman jumped on to a stage in Columbus, Ohio, and shot dead a heavy metal guitarist and three others before himself being shot dead, it might seem surprising to hear that elsewhere a state is extending gun owners' rights.

But in Oklahoma, as across much of rural America, gun control is seen as the work of naive and meddling minds.

"Having a gun is no different from having a hammer. It is just a tool," said Jerry Ellis, a Democratic representative in the state legislature who drafted and pushed through the law.

"Here, gun control is when you hit what you shoot at."

The passage of the law resounded like one of Larry Mullens's Winchester rifle shots through the boardrooms of America.

In recent years companies have been implementing anti-gun policies in an attempt to cut down on violence at the work place.

Now they fear the Oklahoman ruling will encourage the powerful gun lobby all over America to try to roll back the reforms.

Paul Viollis, the president of Risk Control Strategies, is appalled at the new law. Every week there are 17 murders at the work place across America, and most of them involve guns, he says.

"It's the most irresponsible piece of legislation I've seen in my 25 years in the business," he said. "I would invite anyone who'd allow people to bring firearms to work to write the first death notice.

"The argument that emp-loyees should be allowed to bring firearms to work because they'll be locked in the car is so absurd it barely merits a response."

Several companies are trying to block the law. Two days before it was due to come into force last month, a judge granted a temporary restraining order preventing it from taking effect. The next hearing is on Tuesday.

But the firms are fighting on unfavourable terrain. Contrary to the widespread impression that the nation is polarised between gun-loving Republicans and more liberal Democrats, in the heartland gun control spans party lines. The law passed unanimously in Oklahoma's Senate and by 92 votes to four in the House.

Mike Wilt, a Republican, voted against the law, not on security grounds but because he believes the state should not dictate gun policies to property owners. "Here in Oklahoma the issue of guns is not a wedge issue," he said. "We all go hunting together and we all tend to have the same beliefs."

Two weeks ago one of the principal plaintiffs, Whirlpool, a prominent supplier of white goods, withdrew from the case. It said it was satisfied that its ban on guns on its property was not affected. The gun lobby suspects that the decision had more to do with talk of a boycott of the firm.

Nowhere do feelings run more strongly than in Valliant, a small town where, on Oct 1, 2002, at the Weyerhaeuser paper mill, the row began.

Mr Mullens was one of four on-site employees who were sacked after guns were found in their vehicles in contravention of a new company ruling. They are convinced it was just an excuse to lay off workers and insist they did not know about the new security laws.

The firm, which is locked in litigation with the fired employees, rejects the charges and says everyone knew it had a zero-tolerance approach to security. "You don't need a gun to be safe at Weyerhaeuser," said Jim Keller, the firm's senior vice-president. "Safety is our number one priority.

"It's more important to tell someone they don't have a job than to have to tell a family that their loved one is not coming home from work. This is about safety; it's not about guns."

But the people of Valliant, where the high school closes down during the prime week in the deer-hunting season to allow pupils to shoot, will not be easily assuaged.

James Burrell, an assistant at the local gun shop, said: "Most people around here think the new law is already a right."

Mr Mullens has now found a new job, where his employer is less pernickety.

"People tell me to 'stick to my guns' because they are all carrying one too," he said. "The bottom line is that it is our constitutional right to have a gun in the car."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; weyerhaeuser; workplace
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To: NittanyLion

How about firing you for having cigarettes in your car?


461 posted on 12/14/2004 5:14:46 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: BOOTSTICK

The inside of my VEHICLE is MY private property. Period. Get that through your thickened skull.


462 posted on 12/14/2004 5:21:39 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Travis McGee

By the way, the blatant dishonesty of your response was astounding.

The fact that you, a person who constantly advocates nuking Mecca, banning Islam in America, and killing its adherents worldwide because you don't consider Islam a religion at all, turned around and drew moral equivalency between the Q'uran to the Bible in order to hide your true feelings when answering this question, was truly nauseating.


463 posted on 12/14/2004 5:37:14 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: from occupied ga

You don't get it do you?

They don't have to give you a reason why they fired you at all.


464 posted on 12/14/2004 5:37:47 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: from occupied ga
How about firing you for having cigarettes in your car?

I would submit that an employer can set any rules they like (so long as they don't discriminate based on gender/race/religion, violate laws, etc.), and fire you if you fail to meet the rules. Cigarette smoking included.

465 posted on 12/14/2004 5:48:26 AM PST by NittanyLion
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To: Luis Gonzalez
They don't have to give you a reason why they fired you at all.

Depends on the state. Some states true others not true. On the other hand they can't legally fire you for being black or hispanic or for being female. So there are conditions where government regulation trumps employers powers.

466 posted on 12/14/2004 5:58:25 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: NittanyLion
I would submit that an employer can set any rules they like (so long as they don't discriminate based on gender/race/religion, violate laws, etc.), and fire you if you fail to meet the rules.

Then you should have no objection to getting to the law changed to add firearms ownership/possession to the gender/race etc.

467 posted on 12/14/2004 6:00:12 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; Travis McGee; Badray
"There is no Constitutional right to self defense."

Incorrect. The Preamble clearly states that all men are endowed with certain inalienable rights: The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Two of three of those inalienable rights are denied without the simple ability to defend yourself.

Additionally, all life forms have the common sense to defend themselves. It is a universal trait among the living. It has been, and will be in perpetuity, a Natural Law.

I'm very surprised to see you write that sentence.

468 posted on 12/14/2004 6:09:55 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: Squantos
Ok at least I have established yer knowledge on the subject at hand....sorry to bother.

It's a good thing we "gun loonys" have defended "ridiculous ideas" or BOOTSTICK would be left to defending himself with a stick.

That he carries in his boot.

Unless, of course, Luis Gonzales declared even that self-defense to be unconstitutional.

469 posted on 12/14/2004 6:12:55 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: BOOTSTICK
It's the lunatic gun slingers like you who give the rest of us {responsible gun owners} a black eye with your drivel.

You know what? I never really got too involved in this issue.

But now I am going to get really involved in pushing this to the forefront. I will campaign stridently and with great vigor to force all employers to accept concealed weapons on their property. I will be writing letters to the editor, getting on radio shows, and calling call-in TV programs. I will be a vocal and noticable voice for the "lunatic gun slingers". I will never stop.

Mostly, I'll be doing it just to personally annoy you.

470 posted on 12/14/2004 6:16:25 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: BOOTSTICK
Gee by your logic they should pass out guns to all who enter prison

A new cause to get behind! Additionally, I will push for pistols in vending machines that are placed in airports and grade-schools.

471 posted on 12/14/2004 6:17:55 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: Batrachian
I'm as big a Second Amendment supporter as anyone, but private property rights have to take precedence.

What about the right to be free from unreasonable search? Even if my car is parked on the company's lot, the car remains MY private property, and as such, is not subject to search and/or seizure without probable cause. It isn't as cut and dried as you'd like to make it.

472 posted on 12/14/2004 6:20:56 AM PST by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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To: NittanyLion
---I don't 'believe' that an employer violates the Constitution by prohibiting its employees from having firearms on company property. --- A company can regulate the carrying of arms by its employees on the jobsite, certainly.


An employer violates the Constitution by in effect prohibiting its employees from having firearms while driving to and from work.
Thus, employees who park on company property must be allowed to lock weapons in their cars.

Plenty of companies have implemented just such prohibitions, despite protests. -- That's why the Oklahoma state legislature passed a law to prevent companies from doing just that - because the action of the companies is not Constitutional.
- If the companies actions were Constitutionally correct, no law would be required to forbid the practice.

Until you two realize that the Constitution applies to "private actors", all your other arguments are simply wrong.
Companies that forbid employees from locking weapons in their cars are, in effect, infringing on that employees RKBA's.
Company executives & lawyers differ, and people are fired, necessitating laws to settle the issue.
385 jones






So you'd have no problem with me carrying a firearm in your home? How will you like it when I protest President Bush on your front yard? You'll no doubt support my First Amendment right to do so. Right?
459 Nittany








"So", you have no problem ignoring what's been written on this workplace issue?

-- Now you want to shift issues to a discussion of an individuals rights at home?
Pitiful digression.
473 posted on 12/14/2004 6:44:39 AM PST by jonestown ( JONESTOWN, TX http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles)
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To: Lazamataz
Laz...that's in the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.
474 posted on 12/14/2004 6:47:27 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Lazamataz
"...Luis Gonzales declared even that self-defense to be unconstitutional."

Where exactly did I say that Laz?

How does my (correctly) stating that self defense is not a Constitutional right equate to me saying that self-defense is unconstitutional?

I'm truly surprised at where you're going here.

475 posted on 12/14/2004 6:49:35 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Lazamataz
"I'm very surprised to see you write that sentence."

I'm even more surprised at the fact that you can't tell the Constitution apart from the Declaration of Independence, and how they relate to our laws.

476 posted on 12/14/2004 6:51:21 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Hey Boss, can I have next week off?

(lock and load sound)

:D


477 posted on 12/14/2004 6:52:39 AM PST by Fruitbat
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To: NittanyLion

The man who owns the company that I work for has banned all cigarette smoking on his property, if you want to have a smoke during your breaks, you have to physically leave the grounds.

Stated company policy is that cigarette smoking anywhere on the property can get you fired.


478 posted on 12/14/2004 6:53:44 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: jonestown; NittanyLion
Ol' jonestown here bases his entire argument on a falsehood...no one is prohibiting employees from driving to and from work with a weapon in their car, he just claims that the employees are entitled to park in the parking lot, and as such they are also entitled to set the rules for access and usage of the employer's private property.

When faced with the logical response that employees can drive to work, park off premises, and drive home with weapons in their cars without being bothered by their employer, he claims that employees are "forced" or "required" to park on the employer's property...thus far, he's refused to provide one shred of evidence that Weyerhauser required their employers to park on the company parking lot, or that any company requires anyone to not only drive themselves to work, or park on their parking lot.

479 posted on 12/14/2004 6:59:49 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Lazamataz; BOOTSTICK; Luis Gonzales




It's a good thing we "gun loonys" have defended "ridiculous ideas" or BOOTSTICK would be left to defending himself with a stick.

That he carries in his boot.
Unless, of course, Luis Gonzales declared even that self-defense to be unconstitutional.
469 Lazamataz







One wonders what these 'defenders of property' would say if their government regulated insurance companies told them to disarm themselves or lose all coverages.

-- I suspect they would applaud the new program as a great step foward in community safety.


480 posted on 12/14/2004 7:01:22 AM PST by jonestown ( JONESTOWN, TX http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles)
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