White al-Qaeda at the Gates of the West

Serbianna.com ^ | 12/11/04 | Miroljub Jevtic, Ph.D

[mark502inf]

Hello Gitmo, no offense taken. Just providing an anti-dote to some of the nonsense getting posted on here concerning the Balkans. I invite you to to check-up on anything I post. Given the nature of Serbian actions under Milosevic, just about every non-Slavic writer on the subject has been labelled as anti-Serb.

[Hoplite]

Same BS, different day.

Zzz.

[Kolokotronis]

"She was a friendly and extroverted girl."

I'll bet she was! :)

[mark502inf]

He [c'est moi] is not alone, as there are a couple of others -- one with a Greek mythological nome de plume who, I know, is more than partial when it comes to Allah

Were your ears burning? Now hoplites were real, not mythical, but such has been your impact on the Balkans threads!

[Jacob Kell]

'The spotlight fell on bin Laden in Albania with the arrest in 1998 of a French passport holder, Claude Kader, who was believed to be of Middle Eastern origin. He confessed to being a member of one of bin Ladens groups and told investigators he had been sent to give weapons to the guerrillas of the Kosovo Liberation Army, then beginning their war against the Serbs.

The KLA had promised US officials it would not co-operate with fundamentalists. Mr Kader said the KLA had turned him down and that he had returned to Albania, still with his weapons."'

Maybe the KLA felt that it's best inteerests at the time would be to work with NATO and the US-i.e. turning down AQ aid would be in their own best interest. Or maybe Kader was just lying. Was he captured with those weapons? Did the authorities find them? Maybe the KLA did indeed accept the arms, but Kader lied about it...maybe to help the KLA. I'd take anything that an AQ member says with the whole salt shaker.

[Kolokotronis]

"Kolo, you obviously don't know mark, who has been on these threads forever providing "objective" information in support of Balkan Muslims."

You're right. I thought he was just some American who'd served over there but come home with the same "defined by the outer suburbs of Peoria world view" that he left with and whose opinion of Mohammedans was formed by the Pakistani at the local C store who gave candy to all the kids.

"My policy is simple: I do not negotiate with Muslims. This is not my idea, but theirs. Former Bosnian Muslim boss, Alija Izetbegovic, wrote in his Islamic Declaration "there can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political institutions.""

My people didn't negotiate with them much either in the past 200 odd years. No quarter given, none asked for. Mostly they just slit their throats when the slitting was good. Until recently, Greece didn't really have a Mohammedan problem, the the EU came along.

" In 1912 the Serbs took back what was theirs to begin with."

Fighting right along side my people to victory!

[mark502inf]

Christian Serbs were a majority after WW2

Dennis, Albanians have been the majority in what is now Kosovo for a couple hundred years and their proportion of the population in Kosovo actually decreased in the first part of the 20th Century.

According to the Library of Congress country study on Albania, Albanians have been living in Kosovo for hundreds of years and “…have constituted the vast majority of Kosovo's population since at least the 18th Century." See the 1992 Library of Congress Albania Country Study. (go to chapter 1, The Balkan Wars section).

Some early 20th Century studies in H.R. Wilkinson’s “Maps & Politics” book on south Balkans ethnography (ya gotta go to the library for that) put the Albanians at over 90% in what is now Kosovo. Edith Durham’s very entertaining 1909 book High Albania on her travels in northern Albania gives further testimony of Albanian predominance in Kosovo.

The 1990 Library of Congress Country Study on Yugoslavia (Go to Chapter 1, Political Life in the 1920s) also states “After the mid-eighteenth century, Albanians became a majority in Kosovo.” Later on the same page it talks of Serb efforts to fix the ethnic balance: “…in 1920 Belgrade began a drive to resettle Serbs in the region. Coercion, illegal expropriation of Albanian-owned land, and forced deportations marred this campaign. When Albanians attacked Serbian settlements and government institutions, the police seized Albanian property, imprisoned families, and destroyed homes.”

In 1921, 65.8% of Kosovo's population was Albanian and 26% was Serbian based on a government census that counted by mother tongue. Figures from the 1939 census (scroll about halfway down) show that the non-Slav population (ethnic Albanians, Turks, Gypsies, etc.) numbered 422,828 people, or 65,6%, the native Slav population accounted for 25,2% and the settlers (mostly Serbs) for 9,2% . Even the 1944 briefing paper given to President Roosevelt by his Envoy Myron Taylor on disputed territories in Europe describes the ethnic composition of Kosovo as “two-thirds… Albanians”.

The post WWII censuses stayed at about 2/3 Albanians in Kosovo—1948: (65%), 1953 (65%), 1961 (67%) until the 1970s when –with the highest birth-rate in Europe--Kosovar Albanians jumped to 74% in 1971, 78% in 1978 and estimates of 80-90% in the 1990s.

[mark502inf]

Written in 1909:

But even the best friend of the Serbs must admit that it [Prizren]is a Moslem Albanian town. The Servian Metropolitan had already lamented to me that the Serbs were in a considerable minority, but I had not expected to find them such a mere drop in the ocean.

The census just made under the Constitution gives:

Moslem houses 3500

Servian houses (with 4320 inhabitants) 950

Catholic Albanian houses 180

Vlah houses 180

In the case of the Christians, I believe these figures to be fairly correct. The Prizren Moslems, already alarmed at the rumour that Constitution meant loss of privilege to them, and determined not to be compelled to give military service, were said to have understated the number of their houses and to have refused to give the number of inhabitants. It could be reckoned, I was told, at ten to a house.

Of the Moslems, some are genuine Ottoman Turks, settled since early days, but the bulk are Albanian.

Each nation that designs to pick up the pieces, when Turkey in Europe bursts up, keeps a Consul on the spot.

Servia sent a Consul some years ago but he was almost immediately forced to withdraw by the populace.

Of one thing the populace is determined: that is, that never again shall the land be Serb.

-----------------------

And written by Kosta today: In 1912 the Serbs took back what was theirs to begin with."

The sentence written by Miss Durham which I bold-faced at the end of the excerpt juxtaposed with Kosta's post written today pretty well sum up the problem of finding a solution to Kosovo.

[Kolokotronis]

Funny you should quote Edith Durham. Her writings about the Balkans are fascinating reading, especially from a distance of 100 years or so. The first time I read her, a long time ago, I kept hearing " the Wogs begin at Calais" repeating over and over again!

"The sentence written by Miss Durham which I bold-faced at the end of the excerpt juxtaposed with Kosta's post written today pretty well sum up the problem of finding a solution to Kosovo."

Not really. The solution is for one side or the other to finally and absolutely win. I bet I know which side it will be if we can restrain our feminized diplomats from getting involved and dragging our army in behind them.

[mark502inf]

The solution is for one side or the other to finally and absolutely win.

I hope not. Having either side "win" simply means then waiting again until the other side is stong enough for their turn to win. Given the opposite poles from which each side approaches the issue, its certainly not going to be easy to solve another way. And as Miss Durham (great read!) discusses in her book, these are longstanding problems. I'd like to think we can do better than that, however. The ongoing "standards before status" concept I think is a good one.

[Kolokotronis]

"I hope not. Having either side "win" simply means then waiting again until the other side is stong enough for their turn to win."

The idea would be to keep anyone from the "outside" from interfering for as long as possible. Of course, the world is a lot smaller these days and the "outside" a lot closer than before. The real problem, whether anyone in the West wants to admit it or not is that outposts of Islam in Europe simply will continue to be festering sores of a lingering Turkish infection unless and until the Mohammadens are removed, perhaps in a population exchange, as un pc as that most assurdely is. Christianity and Islam have never coexisted comfortably in the Balkans save when one or the other is in a state of dhiminitude. The same goes for the Middle East. The Orthodox Christians of the Balkans have a 500 year history of dhiminitude. They won't let it happen again. It is just that simple. Islam cannot exist, even in its most secular, modern Turkish fashion, without dhiminitude of some fashion for its non-Mohammaden citizens. In fact, the Islam of today, unlike that under the Caliphates, is actually more oppressive than in most former times.

The West can't have it both ways. Either Islam is removed from Europe, or the intercommunal killing continues. Thus far, in the Balkans, the West has chosen Islam. Wrong choice in my opinion and one which which will either lead to greater butchery in the near term or subjugation of Western Europe to Islam in the not so near future. If the latter happens, the Balkans won't care. All the Christians will already be dead in battle.

[FreedomPoster]

Re: Djibouti

That's the sort of activity in the war on terror that is just totally off the radar of 99.95% of the public, but is very important long term.

[mark502inf]

Thus far, in the Balkans, the West has chosen Islam.

Well, in the early 1990s, the west weighed in diplomatically, economically, or with military force on the side of the Catholic Slovenes, the Orthodox Macedonians, and the Catholic Croats as well as the Muslim Bosniaks; then later the mostly Muslim Kosovar Albanians. The one common factor was not religion, it was Serbian involvement on the opposite side.

Its now largely forgotten, but the first significant U.S. military involvement in the Balkans was a U.S. infantry battalion sent to Macedonia as part of UNPROFOR and at the request of the President of Macedonia. Serb nationalists were calling Macedonia "South Serbia" and there was a dispute over the location of the Serbia-Macedonia border. As you well know, both sides were Orthodox; and so were the Greeks who had some interest in that situation as well.

And the single conflict resulting in the most damage to Christian churches didn't involve any Muslims--it was between the Catholic Croats and Othodox Serbs. Follow the links at this site to get a comprehensive list of the destruction.

Finally, it is difficult if not impossible to establish religion as either a cause or as a guiding objective in any of those conflicts. As a component of nationalism, yes--but not to convert the Croats to Orthodox or establish sharia in Kosovo, etc. Nothing like that has happened or is happening.

[mark502inf]

Re: Djibouti That's the sort of activity in the war on terror that is just totally off the radar of 99.95% of the public, but is very important long term

Yeah--its not a secret, but you never hear about. Ditto for our green berets in Chad & Mauritius, etc. The "silent professionals."

[mark502inf]

re post 93, I mean Mauritania--although I bet our guys over there wish they were in Mauritius!

[Kolokotronis]

"Well, in the early 1990s, the west weighed in diplomatically, economically, or with military force on the side of the Catholic Slovenes, the Orthodox Macedonians, and the Catholic Croats as well as the Muslim Bosniaks; then later the mostly Muslim Kosovar Albanians. The one common factor was not religion, it was Serbian involvement on the opposite side."

The one common factor here in all these wars was and is religion. And we bombed the Serbs to rubble and destroyed their economy for Muslims, not Catholic Croats, another lovely bunch whose great claim to fame was their collaboration with the Nazis in the death of tens of thousands of Orthodox Serbs and Jews.

"Serb nationalists were calling Macedonia "South Serbia" and there was a dispute over the location of the Serbia-Macedonia border. As you well know, both sides were Orthodox; and so were the Greeks who had some interest in that situation as well."

"Macedonia" is South Serbia, or perhaps West Bulgaria. It is certainly not Macedonia, though frankly what that bunch of mountaineers want to call themselves is of very little interest to me.

"Finally, it is difficult if not impossible to establish religion as either a cause or as a guiding objective in any of those conflicts. As a component of nationalism, yes--but not to convert the Croats to Orthodox or establish sharia in Kosovo, etc. Nothing like that has happened or is happening."

Your first sentence is typical of an American. What you and the rest of the Balkan Muslim apologists don't understand is that one's faith defines one's nationality in that part of the world; its all the same thing. That simply isn't true here. If you, as a non-Orthodox were to go to Greece and become a Greek citizen, you'd never be a Greek, really, even if you converted. You're just not a member of the tribe. For this reason, conversion of Albanian Kosovar Muslims to Orthodoxy, or probably vice versa, is not now the issue. It was an issue for the Turks, but that was as you've pointed out, a long time ago. As for the Croats and the Serbs, well, they are the same people, a single tribe divided by religion and conversion has always been a factor there. It was rampant during WWII.

[ma bell]

I did beat feet over to kosovo, mark. Rugova does not believe in religion. He belives in Albanian only and nothing less.

The Albanians are all about drugs, not freedom of the people. They want and only want unhindered freedom of movement for one reason, to move their illegal weapons and drug trafficking, amongst their diamond thievery they are known for in NYC and Chicago.

Serbs were all about preventing the drugs and weapons trafficking, not about suppressing the minority which the media wants us all to believe.

Amazing, the Serbian MUP operation is similar to the tactics of our troops in Iraq. Reach out and touch them before they hit us first with full firepower. Then you ask questions.

lawnboy, you recall the albanian diamong heist in chicago about ten years ago?

[mark502inf]

The one common factor here in all these wars was and is religion

You say that, but you don't make a case. Was it the Catholic Church or Catholic doctrine motivating the Slovenes or Croats? Was communist thug Milosevic--identified as not a Christian by Patriarch Pavle of the Serb Orthodox Church--motivated by God or by the Orthodox Church? Were the Kosovar Albanians, led by Catholics and about as secular a bunch as you could find, trying to install sharia or spread Islam to Belgrade? As you know, the answer to all is no. The conflicts were nationalistic and what is going on now in the Balkans reflects that, not a religious war or religious objectives.

You may want to consider why the Croats, Slovenes, Bosniaks, Macedonians, and Albanians all were in conflict with Milosevic's Serbia. All different nationalities with varying religions and ethnicities, yet they all had difficulties with Slobo. I think the answer is obvious and its not theology.

[mark502inf]

I did beat feet over to kosovo...[Rugova] belives in Albanian only and nothing less.

I thought you pedaled a bike!

As to Rugova, I don't doubt it--most Albanians are that way.

[Kolokotronis]

Mark:

You'll not find me a Milosevic partisan in any sense of the word. He was and is an atheistic communist thug surrounded by communist thugs. But what motivated all sides, and which Milosevic and the others were able to tap into, was at base religion, except perhaps the Macedonian situation which as you know is a different kettle of fish and maybe the only true, that is to say at the level of the people, "nationalistic" conflict in the former Yugoslavia.

Mark, its been a long day, so lets pick this up tomorrow after church sometime.