Posted on 12/10/2004 3:21:26 AM PST by Banjoguy
Some people are very upset that a bookstore in Arizona is selling a book called Grand Canyon: A Different View.
The bookstore is operated by the National Park Service, you see, and the different view presented in the book is that the mighty gorge came about as the result of the flood. You know, The Flood. The one starring Noah.
Thus has censorship come full cycle from the days of John Scopes.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1249581/posts
Ping!
Corrected link:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jaybryant/jb20041209.shtml
Thanks for the ping. I donno if this is really an evolution thread. It will attract flat-earthers, that's for sure. I'll see how it goes before doing a big ping to the list.
Ah! Cheers!
I guess it was created over millions of years by the Colorado river? (not from US, so my geog. may be off)
Since this is a government operated bookstore, the complainants are right on target. The book is a religious book and doesn't belong there.
Sorry, but "creation science" isn't science--no matter how may times Duane Gish tells you so.
Big deal if someone feels they can show scientific proof that a flood caused the Grand Canyon rather than something else. I've read the evidence and it is very compelling.
Why can't one believe something else caused the Grand Canyon rather than erosion and still believe in something other than creation or even in creation? Science is science and many will come to different conclusions. Some need to quit being so biblephobic.
To say something isn't science because it doesn't come to the same scientific conclusions you do makes no sense. What you are doing is rejecting anything scientific you think is also reflected in the Bible. Why should that have anything to do with your conclusions? You should not let the Bible influence your science like that. Unfortunately many think like you and that is why there is so much closed mindedness to potential truth in much of the scientific community.
The origins of the Canyon's condition have always been a matter of supposition.
There are other valid, views. A book written by Steven Austin, "Grand Canyon - Monument to Catastrophe" also sold in the Canyon bookstore, is a well written, geologically supported, counterview to those theories which allege that the Canyon was made over millions of year by erosion.
Now I am not a geologist but this book is a compelling and convincing treatise, which supports a much shorter time frame for the events which caused the Canyon to appear in it's present condition. The Austin treatise scientifically supports a creationist position although I don't think the Austin intellectual vector was Creationism, as such.
Admittedly, I haven't read the Vail book but I personally don't find the publication and sale of books which support another view as objectionable. I also question your premise that a book about the origins of the Grand Canyon is a "religious" book needing to be banned.
It's just a book. What is the problem?
Science and scripture in regards to The Flood of Noah also point to the Flood of Gilgamesh. The most likely geographical landmark was the Black Sea. A breach of the land barrier at the Dardenalles allowed the Mediterranian to flow into the fresh water lake that still is in evidence at the bottom of the toxic Black Sea. This would destroy the "known" world, which was pretty small at the time.
[Sorry, but "creation science" isn't science--no matter how may times Duane Gish tells you so.]
What is so wrong with a diversity of ideas? Of course creation can be considered a science. Any study can be "considered" a science. Open up, relax a little. Different doesn't always mean wrong.
As far as the government, they should allow ALL theories to be made available. Let the people decide which one they want to believe. If the government cannot "support" the creation theory, they shouldn't be allowed to "support" any theory.
Oh, the Grand Canyon WAS formed by a flood.
And another flood. And another flood. And another flood....
In any river almost all the erosion is accomplished a few days a year during floods....the rest of the year there's almost no erosion at all.
One of the reasons these silly Noachian single flood formation theories "hold water" with some people is they go to the Grand Canyon and see the little trickle that is the Colorado River these days and can't figure out how "that" did "THAT."
Of course, the Colorado has now been dammed up and most of it sucked out for irrigation; you don't see the yearly snowmelt spring floods sending huge boulders careening down the river for millions of years.
And of course the great breadth of the canyon is the result of additional erosional processes, mass-wasting, etc (the entire Canyon was never filled with water at any time.) But not like the average American actually learns any basic geology in school.
Y'know, you "biblical creationists" really ARE brain dead. Who said anything about BANNING the damned book?? Put it in all the non-government bookstores you want--put it on Amazon (it probably already is), sell it yourselves by mail. Just DON'T say that it reflects accurate science, because it doesn't. And no, it does NOT belong in a bookstore run by the government.
"One of the reasons these silly Noachian single flood formation theories "hold water" with some people is they go to the Grand Canyon and see the little trickle that is the Colorado River these days and can't figure out how "that" did "THAT.""
No, it's not a reaction to that for most. Although you're right some may react in that manner. Actually it's the average person who believes in evolution who goes there, sees the river and says "That did that". Most do not know all the theories (evolution or creation) and evidence so that is what they assume.
My point in this thread, however, is I don't see any reason for anyone to fear this book. Just let science be science. Don't run from something just because you think it helps give the Bible some credibility in your mind. Enjoy looking at all possibilities of the evidence.
I've read the "evidence", and it is bullshit, as is the rest of the "science" published by the "Institute for Creation Research".
"Why can't one believe something else caused the Grand Canyon rather than erosion and still believe in something other than creation or even in creation? Science is science and many will come to different conclusions. Some need to quit being so biblephobic."
You (and I) are free to believe any thing we damned well please---just don't call what is NOT science "scientific".
I get it. No sense rationally discussing this issue. Science has become political to you. Anything someone says that you disagree with will be yelled down as NOT "scientific".
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