Posted on 12/09/2004 2:07:54 PM PST by dandelion
It's a great question: why don't we have enough armor? Kind of like it's great to see a contestant win a lot of money on a game show - but it's a LOT better when it's not manufactured.
Fixed. Staged. Chroreographed.
Whatever you want to call it, the news is always better when the reporter doesn't insert himself into the mix, as Edward Pitts has supposedly done.
According to Drudge:
From: EDWARD LEE PITTS, MILITARY AFFAIRS Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2004 4:44 PM To: Staffers
Subject: RE: Way to go
I just had one of my best days as a journalist today. As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. I was told yesterday that only soldiers could ask questions so I brought two of them along with me as my escorts. Before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have. While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd.
There was this thing, and we called it "journalistic ethics". But enough about ancient history - when the chips go down the press will always say "it doesn't mean the story/question/incident/expense report isn't true". Fair enough, it's a great question and it deserves to go on the editorial page. It does not deserve on the "news" page when a soldier (who was coached by the reporter) is picked by the mic man (who was also coached by the reporter) so other reporters can specifically target an individual with the administration. These Q&A sessions have been held in the past, but always without the Old Media present. This is the reason why.
But on to the great question: yes, they should ask this, and they should get an honest answer. Do you really want to know why we don't have enough armor? Let's find out why Dick Durbin (D, PA) says we don't have any armor...
From the Congressional Record, Feb. 11, 2004. (PDF):
We should do better. I said to the Secretary of the Army: Isn't this a priority? He said: It is our highest priority to build the 8,400 doors for these Humvees. He told me that many will be made in my State at the Rock Island Arsenal . I visited the Rock Island Arsenal and saw the first sets of doors come off for the Humvees, and the workers were so proud. They knew they had done something significant.
I said to the commander at the arsenal : How long will it take us now? We need 8,400 sets and we are also doing them at Anniston. He said: We are going to get these doors built in one year.
One year? In World War II, we were building bombers in 72 hours and ships in 30 and 60 days, and we need 1 year to make the armor-plated doors to protect the Humvees so that fewer of our men and women in uniform will have to go to Walter Reed Hospital for prosthetic devices and medical treatment.
I said: Why is it taking one year? He said: Because there is only one steel-fabricating plant left in America, and it is in Pennsylvania. It makes the steel that we can convert into the armor plating for these doors. We are using everything they produce as fast as they produce it.
So when the issue comes up about loss of manufacturing jobs, and loss of American jobs, and loss of our industrial base, it is more than a cold discussion of statistics; it is a discussion about the reality of our economy and the reality we face. Whether you live in North Carolina, where we have lost textile jobs, or you live in Illinois, where we have lost steel jobs, the fact is, as we lose these jobs, we lose our capacity. When it comes to something as basic as steel, that capacity plays out so that our soldiers in Iraq today are more vulnerable to enemy attack because we cannot produce the steel in America.
What makes this all the more damning is the fact that this information came from a Democrat in the now-dashed hope of making the economy a priority in an election year. Never mind that Durbin never points to the fact that this decimation of American Steel and the manufacturing industry happened as a whole under the Clinton Administration. Obviously, American products should be used to create American Armor, so as to avoid any chance of sabotage or low quality. But now we have to buy the vast majority of our steel from foreign countries, many of whom may disagree with our policies, and to whom we have to pay top dollar. Americans weren't supposed to do that anymore, remember? We were all going to work in those new Hi-Tech industries, we were all going to have cushy high-paying service jobs, so Clinton gave away our manufacturing jobs and all the contracts to foreign governments. Now most of our steel comes from China. Remember?
The real recipient of this question should be ever member of Congress who let American Steel die - NOT Donald Rumsfeld. A real reporter would ask the question of those who are responsible, not send in a stooge to ask it of those they'd like to see blamed for this mess.
Why don't we have armor?
Because we only have ONE American factory that makes steel for our armor, that's why. IF we want more American armor, we need to manufacture more American Steel.
It's really too bad the Old Media doesn't ask this question of those who could do something about it. But it appears they are only interested in manufacturing the news...
Pray for W and Our Troops
Then don't ping me.
Welcome to dark side of globalism and the New World Order.
"No, I agree with you totally. My father was in the defense industry re: development and design for decades. What you are saying is true. We can't even put out enough armor for our vehicles right now - what will happen if we ever go to war with China?"
Things are much more critical in many areas then most Americans realize. Of course why worry the poor folks
in front of their boob tubes on such trivial matters. Most
not having a clue will only grip if you told them we no longer can make new generation tanks because we lack the proper type grade of steel to armor plate it. But perhaps as some have indicated this will not come to past, if the smaller highly efficient micro mills can come through.
Of course I for one realize I don't have the whole story.
Surely all the current high carbon steel armor is coming from somewhere. Perhaps it is all coming from these US mills.
Personally I think we are not getting tough with China on trade policy because China is quietly propping up North Korea and using the NK nuclear threat as a weapon to keep us from getting tough on trade. We will not get tough on trade with China because we need their help to eliminate the nuclear threat from NK. Meanwhile, China is stalling and not putting enough pressure on North Korea so they can continue to use this issue against us. The Chinese government is not a friend of ours, but is really a two-faced adversary.
" I think the only way we could possibly turn this around is a good old-fashioned boycott of ALL products made in China. Now,"
Problem is. How do we do this? Do we just outlaw the agreements put in place during the Clinton years? And lets us face it, it is not just China. It is the whole frigen world of companies, how the are managed in each country, where the banks put their money for investment purposes, on and on.
There are no simple answers. We have allowed to much to slip in the past. I think it could be called short term profits.
But then, we in America generically claim we love free trade, we love free competition.
So when you sadly write: "When I see my husband's company going down the tubes cause they're moving their semi-conductor manufacturing lines to China ...."
What is the answer. It has gotten to the point that this company either cannot continue fabricating the IC here and
maintain a given profit margin, or they have suscomed to the short term profit syndrome, whatever.
Sadly many people in those clean rooms are going to lose their jobs. More folks out of work with little chance of finding like work again. Clean rooms for those not savy, are the special areas where the integrated circuits are actually manufactured. Then other areas such as wire bonding the integrated circuit into a package comes into play. If this company is moving it's semi-conductor lines off shore, then most likely all phases of the operation will eventually move. Those that package the IC, test groups comprised of engineers and technitians that test the parts will also move of shore eventually. It seems to happen every time. Depending on how large this company is, it may fire a few thousand people or more. Depending on what the companies final product lines are, perhaps only the top managment which of course would include the money folks will remain.
Then of course in two years the company will announce that in order to stay alive it most move it's fiancial departments to India. Get the picture.
the armor issue is not just a matter of how many plants their are to produce.
The specs on the Armor that is the prefered armor....requires a productions technique that many plants do not use...
mainly because it cost so much to retool for that.
Sure...other plants could just start producing the armor...but if the do not use the tech. required...the end result will be armor that does not have the core strength needed.
Okay, I went and looked at Nucor.
http://finance.yahoo.com/search?type=&s=nucor&r=
I see that their stock has almost doubled in the last twelve months, has gone from a low of about 18 to a present 50 since early 2003, and that their stock split in October.
In addition, they issued a press release today entitled "Nucor Announced 127th Consecutive Cash Dividend". They have a 12.31% operating margin and a 31% RoE. They have a healthy cash flow, and a healthy balance sheet.
Looks pretty good.
Steel companies consist of a great many people doing a job that any idiot could do. Do not, therefore, be surprised that they look for cheaper idiots.
Barf. This has been going on for 30 years. They used to blame it on Reagan. Then the Japanese. Then the Chinese, and now Clinton.
Let's see. Get the steel from Korea, electronics from Japan, computers from China, and the production staff from Mexico. No problem, Army, you just have to undo the Administration's free trade.
Even if the armor is a specialty alloy, the troups have been beefing up their Humvees with "scrap steel" from the dump. I cannot believe that a "temporary" armor could not have been produced with run of the mill steel plate that is readily available.
I have a strong suspicion that we are going to find some damn bureaucratic reason why we had to wait for the manufacturer to do the reinforcing.
Every adminstration has to plan for the possibility of an unexpected war that may be years in the future. It takes several years to fully equip the Army and Marine Corps with the specialized equipment that they use. So it's irresponsible not to have the military prepared for a possible war that may be four or five years in the future. The Clintons suffered from the naive attitude that if we were just nice to all these terrorists and terror-sponsoring regimes, they would leave us alone.
As for why Bush decided to invade Iraq, and why Clinton fired 80 cruise missiles into Iraq in 1998: I'd give it a 90%+ probability that Iraq participated in an actual or attempted major terrorist attack against America sometime before 1998. Just go back and look at all the bombings, plane crashes, and train wrecks that happened between '92 and '98. We know for sure that an Iraqi agent did the first WTC bombing in '93. In addition, Iraq was able to get within six months of having a working nuclear weapon when we launched Desert Storm in 1991.
OK, good point.
For SPECIFIC information on up armored Humvees, including who is building the kits, how many are produced and what congress as authorized go there;
http://www.defense-update.com/features/du-3-04/up-armored-humvee.htm
RE: 13-year old girls in Guangdong Province aren't going to be building any Humvees for us
Bwaaahaaaahaaa! What a rich image! And true!
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