Groups Debate Slower Strategy on Gay Rights (Gays to Accept Bush's SS Reform IF....)

NY Times ^ | 12/9/04

[KidGlock]

Groups Debate Slower Strategy on Gay Rights

By JOHN M. BRODER

Published: December 9, 2004

LOS ANGELES, Dec. 8 - Leaders of the gay rights movement are embroiled in a bitter and increasingly public debate over whether they should moderate their goals in the wake of bruising losses in November when 11 states approved constitutional amendments prohibiting same-sex marriages.

In the past week alone, the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay and lesbian advocacy group, has accepted the resignation of its executive director, appointed its first non-gay board co-chairman and adopted a new, more moderate strategy, with less emphasis on legalizing same-sex marriages and more on strengthening personal relationships.

The leadership of the Human Rights Campaign, at a meeting last weekend in Las Vegas, concluded that the group must bow to political reality and moderate its message and its goals. One official said the group would consider supporting President Bush's efforts to privatize Social Security partly in exchange for the right of gay partners to receive benefits under the program.

"The feeling this weekend in Las Vegas was that we had to get beyond the political and return to the personal," said Michael Berman, a Democratic lobbyist and consultant who was elected the first non-gay co-chairman of the Human Rights Campaign's board last week. "We need to reintroduce ourselves to America with the stories of our lives."

But others involved in the drive for gay and lesbian equality say the Human Rights Campaign's approach smacks of pre-emptive surrender and wrong-headed political calculation.

"For a certain segment of the movement, for which I would certainly elect the H.R.C. as poster child, it means that the error was that we were wanting too much too fast," said Jonathan D. Katz, executive coordinator of the Larry Kramer Initiative for Lesbian and Gay Studies at Yale. "It is entirely characteristic for them to believe that what is required is a sort of retrenchment and a return to a more moderate message. They are, of course, completely wrong."

Mr. Katz and other aggressive advocates of gay rights said they believed that marriage rights were the key to winning fundamental equality for gay men and lesbians and that retreat from that struggle was self-defeating.

George Chauncey, director of the Lesbian and Gay Studies Project at the University of Chicago, said the marriage debate had galvanized gays more dramatically than any other issue in recent years.

"It is inescapable that marriage is the central issue facing the gay movement now and, given the strength of the right wing, there is no way the movement can run away from it," said Professor Chauncey, author of "Why Marriage? The History Shaping Today's Debate Over Gay Equality." "There is no escaping the fact that marriage is going to be one of the central terrains on which this conversation has to take place."

The gay rights movement, like other battles through history over individual rights, has made progress in fits and starts, in the culture and in the courts, in legislatures and in families. And like most political movements, it has always been riven with dissension on strategy and tactics, on questions of how far and how fast the movement can push without provoking a backlash.

The Human Rights Campaign, which is based in Washington, was instrumental in the defeat this year of the federal marriage amendment, which would have defined marriage as a union only between a man and a woman. The group was not as active in the ballot initiative battles in the states this fall.

Some gay rights activists, including the leadership of the Human Rights Campaign, said they believed that aggressively pursuing same-sex marriage only played into the hand of Republicans and religious conservatives, who skillfully used the issue this fall to energize their voters.

Steven Fisher, the campaign's communications director, said the group's emphasis in coming months would be on communicating the struggles of gays in their families, workplaces, churches and synagogues. The story of gay men and lesbians in the United States is often told through the prism of sensationalism and stigma, Mr. Fisher said.

"When you put a face to our issues, that's when we get support," he said. "We're not going to win at the ballot box until we start winning at the water cooler and in the church pews."

He also said the group would adopt a selective and incremental approach to winning rights rather than reaching for the gold ring of marriage right away. He mentioned that the group would press more immediately for Social Security survivor benefits, hospital visitation privileges and tax breaks for gay couples.

Lawyers representing some gay groups have concluded that challenging antimarriage amendments in individual states is a losing proposition even if they win in some courts because American society is not yet ready to accept the idea of same-sex partners sharing the same rights as heterosexual couples.

"The legal strategy to win marriage rights is a decade ahead of the political strategies to educate the public and the legislatures," said Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. "Putting a fundamental right up for a popular vote is always extremely difficult to win, no matter what the cause. And when you are talking about something as recent as marriage equality, the bar gets raised even higher."

Mr. Foreman said that whenever the gay rights movement made progress, it generated a "pushback" in the form of hostile legislation, hate speech and even violence.

But he disagreed with what he called the defensive posture of some gay advocates. He said gay men and lesbians had to remain on the offensive, even if it meant proceeding one state at a time, one gay couple at a time.

"A lot of gay people understand the concept of bullies," Mr. Foreman said. "The worst thing you can do with a bully is not fight back because you'll only get hit harder the next day."

Pragmatists and politicians are more inclined to support the Human Rights Campaign's measured approach. Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, said it was important for the movement to sensibly pick its fights. "You take risks for your gains," he said, "but you don't take risks for no gain."

In recent weeks Mr. Frank has been particularly critical of Mayor Gavin Newsom of San Francisco for his decision earlier this year to allow thousands of gay couples to wed at City Hall. The marriages, which Mr. Frank called "spectacle weddings," were later invalidated by the California Supreme Court.

Representative Tammy Baldwin, a Democrat from Wisconsin who, like Mr. Frank, is openly gay, said the gay rights movement was caught unprepared for the ballot initiatives this year. She also endorsed an incremental approach to winning rights for gay couples, securing the "component parts" of marriage benefits one at a time.

"When you look at the civil rights that make up the civil institution of marriage, there is significant public support for extending those protections to same-sex couples," Ms. Baldwin said. She also said she would continue her support for an end to workplace discrimination against gay men and lesbians and support efforts by unions to extend benefits to same-sex partners.

The Human Rights Campaign has shown itself to be an effective lobby on Capitol Hill and successful in raising money to work for and publicize gay causes. The group's annual budget is about $30 million. But it finds itself in a difficult environment, with larger and more conservative Republican majorities in Congress and a White House that knows how to use same-sex marriage to its political advantage.

Trevor Potter, a Republican elections lawyer and a member of the Human Rights Campaign's board of directors, said the group's new approach was not a retreat but an acknowledgement of changed circumstances.

"It's a wake-up call," he said. "Just continuing to do what we were doing would not be productive."

[FormerLib]

"Just continuing to do what we were doing would not be productive."

Unless they figure out a way to fertilize a turd, that's going to be an eternal truth for these people.

[Unam Sanctam]

"When you put a face to our issues, that's when we get support," he said. "We're not going to win at the ballot box until we start winning at the water cooler and in the church pews."

The gay activists simply want to change everyone to agree with their ideology. They fundamentally do not believe in religious freedom, or the right of traditional religious believers to view homosexual activity as immoral and not to have the government impose the gay activist ideology on society by civil same sex "marriage". They just don't get it. Nobody's stopping them from doing whatever they want, but they do not have a right to get government affirmation for it, nor do they have a right to impose their views on others.

[MadAnthony1776]

True in more ways than one.

[wolfpat]

This is going to remain a problem until homosexuality is finally acknowledged as an emotional disorder.
It once was, but that didn't fit their agenda, did it?

[IronJack]

whether they should moderate their goals

Yeah, whatever you do, don't give up those goals. Just slow down. Never mind that people think you're disgusting, or that they reject your values wholesale. Just bide your time, sneak around in the shadows, re-engineer society to fit your vision ...

In other words, behave like Leftists always do.

[Racehorse]

Human Rights Campaign . . . adopted a new, more moderate strategy, with less emphasis on legalizing same-sex marriages and more on strengthening personal relationships . . . would consider supporting President Bush's efforts to privatize Social Security partly in exchange for the right of gay partners to receive benefits under the program . . . "We need to reintroduce ourselves to America with the stories of our lives."  . . . the group would press more immediately for Social Security survivor benefits, hospital visitation privileges and tax breaks for gay couples.

[ . . . ]

"For a certain segment of the movement, for which I would certainly elect the H.R.C. as poster child, it means that the error was that we were wanting too much too fast," said Jonathan D. Katz, executive coordinator of the Larry Kramer Initiative for Lesbian and Gay Studies at Yale. "It is entirely characteristic for them to believe that what is required is a sort of retrenchment and a return to a more moderate message. They are, of course, completely wrong."

Mr. Katz and other aggressive advocates of gay rights said they believed that marriage rights were the key to winning fundamental equality for gay men and lesbians and that retreat from that struggle was self-defeating.

Anyone remember the early days when homosexuals and their supporters mocked the notion they had a gay agenda for America?

[Graybeard58]

2% of the population trying to impose official sanction of their perverted life style on the other 98%.

They have found out that it won't work at the state level in 11 out of 11 cases by huge margins, so they will try to bargain with "W" to make gains on a national level.

The President hardly needs the backing of the sodomites to get the legislation passed that he wants.

[odoso]

The freak activists can spin the issues any way they choose. The problem is this...

The majority still do and always will recognize homosexuality for what it is: A filthy, perverse and disgusting behavioral choice.

These freak activists are seeking special treatment, special privileges and special status over you and I. They try and stigmatize those in opposition to there sick agenda by making up words like "homophobic" and phrases like "hate crimes".

You don't "make deals" with extortionists, you tell them to play by the same rules as everyone else! The only discrimination, bigotry, stalking, hatred, calculated manipulation and deception going on in America today is by gay activists and their staunchest supporter... the ACLU.

Make no mistake, this disease has not gone in to remission as this latest spin would have us believe; it's merely in the process of developing a new strain.

[AuH2ORepublican]

"One official said the group would consider supporting President Bush's efforts to privatize Social Security partly in exchange for the right of gay partners to receive benefits under the program."

---

Not unless SS benefits are given to *any* person that the worker chooses, be it his mother, brother, friend or what have you. We cannot give special rights based on the fact that two people are engaged in a sexual relationship outside of marriage.

[upchuck]

Sounds like they are admitting, "Oopsey, we pushed a litle too hard. Let's adopt a lower profile while we regroup."

That said, the queers and fagots actively and willingly encourage a lifestyle that is twisted and perverted. They cleverly promote behavior that is diametrically opposed to the Judeo-Christian principles upon which our nation was founded. Their promiscuous behavior spreads incurable diseases and causes agonizing death. Let's not lend credence to a bunch of perverts seeking to hijack this country's moral foundation.

Make no mistake about this... although they comprise, at most, just 3% of our population, they are one of Satan's most powerful and influential forces. And, unfortunately, they WILL be back.

[tuesday afternoon]

So many good comments in this thread.

I don't trust the HRC or other homosexual groups to be truthful about their agenda. The homosexual agenda is alive and kicking.

Culture of Vice

[little jeremiah]

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

I know you're all getting a *lot* of articles pung out. But make sure you read this one. Kind of an overview of the reactions of various "gay rights" organizations and spokesholes. "Should we pretend we're normal and be more moderate, or should we be even more in-your-face? Hmmm, hmmm."

Notice the several references to "Gay/Lesbian/queer" studies and professors. Universities are basically compost piles growing perverts.

I'm going to hunt around for the summary of "After the Ball" and post it up.

Let me and ItsOurTimeNow know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.

My vote is for them to ramp up the energy, with lots of more pictures of slightly bearded overweight women snuggling, two male homosexuals with children*, and guys in drag. The more "middle America" sees, the less they'll like it.

*Actually I would prefer to never see such pictures, but because children are being "raised" that way, everyone should know about it.

Addendum: The more facts are widely disseminated, the more actual people know the truth, the sooner the "gay" agenda will go back in the closet where it belongs.

[EdReform]

BTTT

What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda

Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Version 1.1)

Myth and Reality about Homosexuality--Sexual Orientation Section, Guide to Family Issues"

[DBeers]

Unless they figure out a way to fertilize a turd, that's going to be an eternal truth for these people.

LMAO

[EdReform]

But he disagreed with what he called the defensive posture of some gay advocates. He said gay men and lesbians had to remain on the offensive, even if it meant proceeding one state at a time, one gay couple at a time.

"A lot of gay people understand the concept of bullies," Mr. Foreman said. "The worst thing you can do with a bully is not fight back because you'll only get hit harder the next day."

Some of the worst bullies are homosexuals. Like Mr. Brownshirt, himself:

An excerpt from "Homosexual leader vows to 'torture' opponents"

"The head of a national homosexual organization is vowing to politically "punish," "terrify" and "torture" activists who oppose his organization's agenda on "gay" rights – which he says would give him "endless satisfaction."

Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force in Washington, D.C., made the comments in yesterday's edition of Between the Lines, a Detroit area homosexual newsmagazine, the American Family Association of Michigan points out.

In addition to declaring his desire for retribution against "local legislators and leaders" who oppose the homosexual agenda, Foreman expressed a goal beyond securing legal same-sex marriage, that is gaining other means besides marriage by which homosexuals could access public and private financial benefits.

Foreman told the interviewer of his plans to go after his opponents.

"I'm … interested in going after, politically, local legislators and leaders that have launched these anti-gay initiatives," he explained. "'We beat you, now we're gonna go back and we're going to affirmatively punish you' – people who launch this stuff, so that they understand not only that they're not going to win, but that there are consequences to it.

"We would set up a [political action committee] and go in and terrify them with a credible challenge. ... So we go in, for a modest investment of money and torture these people, which would give me endless satisfaction. And the word would go out very quickly, 'You know what, this really isn't worth it' ..."

( read more here )

[DBeers]

"When you put a face to our issues, that's when we get support," he said.

Keep dreaming -fraternal correction and prayer is all you will get...

[EdReform]

Well said

[ApesForEvolution]

They can get back in the damn closet...perverted trash.