Posted on 12/06/2004 9:55:50 PM PST by Former Military Chick
BAGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 6 - The American military has ordered punishment, but not courts-martial, for 23 Army Reserve soldiers who refused in October to deliver fuel to a base in Iraq, claiming that it was too dangerous, military officials here said Monday.
The soldiers are receiving nonjudicial punishments under Article 15 of the military justice code, which could include reduction in rank, loss of pay and restricted movements depending on their commander's discretion, said Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, a military spokesman.
Eighteen have already been disciplined, and the five others will have their punishments decided later, he said. Under the terms of Article 15, there will be no further court proceedings, and none will have their names officially released.
The soldiers who were disciplined belong to the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C. They refused orders on Oct. 13 to drive a fuel convoy from Tallil Air Base, near Nasiriya in southern Iraq, to Taji, 15 miles north of Baghdad. They complained that they were not being escorted by armed vehicles, that their fuel was contaminated and that their vehicles were not properly outfitted.
The soldiers were detained for nearly two days afterward, and the Army began an investigation.
The convoy mission was eventually carried out by other soldiers without incident. But the soldiers' refusal drew the attention of Senator John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, and others who said it demonstrated the Bush administration's failure to equip soldiers properly in a dangerous country.
Preliminary inquiries found that the unit's trucks were not armored and were among the last in that command scheduled for such protection because they usually operated in less dangerous parts of the country. Armor has since been added to the unit's vehicles.
The commander of the unit was relieved at her own request and was not investigated or disciplined, Colonel Boylan said. The Pentagon had said earlier that she had been relieved as a disciplinary action.
The unit was placed temporarily on a maintenance training assignment, but returned to full duty on Nov. 11, he said.
But I was not there, I can only go by all the articles that have been posted on FR regarding this unit and their willingness to allow other to go in their stead because they felt they had improper trucks.
Why would anyone feel like any of these 23 would cover your six, I sure as heck do not think so.
What else would you expect from NYTimes?
Ping
Update on those who disobeyed an order.
Mixed feelings. I know there's an historic and herculen job to be done, but at the same time a lot is asked of our troops while they are short of supplies and support. They are all heroes (and heroines). God bless them.
Do you know if the commander who was relieved also disobeyed the order?
Given what Gen Janice Karpinski got for her role in the Abu Ghrahib prison drama
seems par for the course...
Different spanks for different ranks...
imo
She apparently "voluntarily steped down."
Right, but was she one of the mutineers?
Why have we seen no pictures of these people? What's being hidden?
Maybe. In prior wars they might have faced a firing squad. That was necessary to discourage other soldiers from refusing orders, when such orders sometimes included assaults that we knew would have an extremely high causality rate.
But today our soldiers are more professional, better trained and no longer used as cannon fodder.
Just a thought.
General George Patton would have shot the bastards. My brother was a chopper pilot lifting our guys out of hot zones. No armament or guns on board other than M16s and 1911s. He and his crew did their jobs and duty. Luckily he and his crew were never shot down or wounded and all survived. They were highly decorated, no that they cared. they just performed their duty by following orders. Then again, that was 30+ years ago. My brother left as a Captain after thre years in the US Army.
"Folks may disagree with me but I think they are getting off lightly, their actions, in my opinion warranted stronger punishment."
I'll not second guess the military, which did an investigation, and passed out the punishment that was deemed appropriate.
In war, you usually select from among imperfect options.
"Ours is not to question why...etc."
I've never been in combat, but I've been trained for it.
Following orders without flinching is mandatory.
Article 15 seems fair to Me.
It admits the troops were wrong. But, it implies the Errors extended beyond THEIR actions.
Their Complaints MAY have been Valid! Their "method of complaint" was in error.
I agree with you 100%.
The Army and Bush should apologize immediately! This is a quagmire of unprecedented proportions. Thank you Mr. Kerry for pointing out the fact that NOT everyone was equipped with everything near simultaneously before deploying. The Army, knowing every twist and turn the world will throw it has of course all this stuff (For every possible contingency, weather, terrain) just conveniently lying around. It would of course never had come to such a horrid situation had people like Kerry who voted against the 87 billion after voting for it (Or did I get this backwards?) been the ones making the decisions.
Ever think that sometimes even if you throw money at something, you only have a given manufacturing capacity? Examples HMMWV, IBA and others. The government threw money at them, but you can only build so fast. Eventually you catch up, but for some time there were many soldiers with the older PASGT body armor (Today there is no lack. Within 6 months the issue was fixed yet it too was turned into a political issue by no less than Kerry [He's so concerned about the soldier you know?]). Not for a lack of concern, knowledge, attempt to procure or anything else are there sometime equipment shortages. Point Blank simply could not build them fast enough (It was not even their fault)! There is NO way it is even remotely possible/feasible for the US Army to be equipped for every possible contingency in a premeditated fashion. The spectrum of terrain, enemy, missions, climate, allied support, logistical requirements, threat weapons…… is so diverse that NO ONE could afford this. We are equipped for certain missions, threats and terrain/weather. Some tanks were even green while in Baghdad! Bush is obviously at fault for this too. But you know, 1AD and ID have been operating a lot in the Balkans in the last years. Some soldiers lacked two pair of dessert BDUs (DCU) since there were not enough to go around. I'm going to make a bold statement now. I bet that if we had a war in the arctic next year, we would not have enough extended cold weather warfare systems on hand! That's right, we would not be able to equip 330,000 with arctic warefare equipment, SUS-Vs and so on over night. In hindsight, people like Kerry and even McCain seem to be very smart.
Red6
I don't think these soldiers ought to be punished... send them home, transfer them to another unit, get rid of them somehow.
It wasn't their fault. I believe in the old adage attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte.... "There are no such things as bad regiments; only bad colonels."
Napoleon was right. Some of these guard units are very poorly trained and led. Someone should be punished or court martialed for sure, but it ain't those 23 mopes. There had to be officers in leadership positions that were somehow derelict in their leadership and duties... training, equipping, leading, supervising, setting the example, and all of that. Problems like this are hardly ever the fault of the troops.
Old Marine.
Fair enough question but with a family of those who have served in conflicts I can only go by there observations of the events.
But, there are other ways for these fine men and women because I think they are basically fine used a method of going to the media to exress their frustrations and allowed another group to go in their place. An order is an order, we cannot pick and choose which order we do and not do.
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