Rifle Used in WI Massacre Was Not An SKS

Star Tribune ^ | Nov. 23 ,2004 | State of Wisconsin

[Jed Eckert]

" ..... Vang was later apprehended by Wisconsin DNR Warden Jeremy Peery. Vang was still in possesion of his hunting gear., including back tag and also his rifle. The rifle was a Saiga SKS 7.62 X 39 Caliber, Serial Number H03104079....

[cweese]

Wow! I didn't realize that y'all had such a problem with these folks.

[concretebob]

and is only used for recreational purposes.

[ASA Vet]

and is only used for recreational purposes.

Yes, the shooting sports are one of Americas top recreations.

[NMC EXP]

About the only thing they have in common are the action (semi auto) and the caliber

So if I install an SKS in an aftermarket stock and add different sights its no longer an SKS?

Rhetorical question of course.

SKS is a model, a type defined by the mechanics of the action. No matter who builds it its still an SKS.

The US Rifle caliber .30 M1 was built by Springfield Armory, Winchester, Harrington & Richardson, and International Harvester.

The only thing they had in common were the action and caliber.

You're splitting semantic hairs with your claim the Saiga SKS is not an SKS.

[tubebender]

They are a problem in the woods of the North West during commercial mushroom season. The Forest Service has many run ins with them.

[Poser]

You're splitting semantic hairs with your claim the Saiga SKS is not an SKS.

Then a Springfield 03 is a Mauser and an AK47 is an SKS and a Ford is a Chevy.

It isn't an automatic rifle and it isn't an SKS. The press was wrong as usual.

[muawiyah]

In Texas it's probably OK to boldly walk up to someone holding a rifle and demand he leave your property. However, up in Wisconsin you might sometimes run into a psycho who is there to kill you ~ all he's done by climbing into your deer stand is bait you.

You are real lucky that you live in Texas where the chances of meeting a serial killer are virtually nil

(/sarcasm).

[joesnuffy]

Well compared to what is happening on our borders it probably isn't significant
but in our rural areas they were dumped on us by the commercial airliner load
a fresh load just came in a few months ago...it was pretty noticeable to say the least.

The gangs are bad news...and thanks to the socialists in the schools welfare dept and in local and state government their sense and attitude of 'entitlement' is arrogant the get violent with those in the community who oppose them..they are defended by the 'city mothers', the press and law enforcement..they act like nasty pets of the liberals in charge

They were nice and shy and quiet back 25 yrs ago when the first ones landed...but since then their numbers have greatly increased....as well as the violence...The old ones complain that they cant control the young ones...and just shrug their shoulders...

Meanwhile the drugs, prostitution and violence spreads between Minneapolis St. Paul ...through Eau Clair...Wausau over to Green Bay and through the Fox River Valley....with gang bangers causing trouble over in LaCrosse as well...

In the past 25 yrs I have had to pull a piece on them more than once...and luckily it was a standoff each time..

There was another hunter murdered in a similar fashion about three years ago ..shot in the back two times...and his rifle was stolen...he was hunting on his own land..about 80 miles from the recent murders

A late model Toyota was spotted at near the scene by some locals who told police about it later...three SE Asians were in this vehicle...the crime was never solved..they are looking in to the possibility of Vang being involved as he bought a license to hunt in WI that same year....if so then there is more than one involved

To wander about on opening day...when others are in their tree stands being quiet and waiting for deer is pretty dang rude as those who have waited patiently in the cold for the possiblity of a shot arent too happy to have the deer chased off by hunters just walking around site seeing...according to what the papers are calling Vang's "cultural wife" (shack job) Vang is a long time hunter...funny he doesn't follow the rules of etiquette that are well known and established for many years...especially opening day weekend.

His roving around says to me he was not serious about getting a deer....the way we hunt is to spend a few weekends before the season starts scouting out where you intend on hunting..
You pick a spot and see if others have been around there ahead of you...if there are lots of fresh boot prints around...you look for another place for your tree stand..

The day before...the opening...you go put up your portable stand...and mark it so you can find it in the dark...

Opening day you make your way to your stand...and get up in it and sit there till you see something to shoot or noon comes when its time to warm up...get some lunch take a nap
or if you are with a big party start making your drives...most folks don't drive opening day
we wait till the next week when the deer are hold up and the out of state hunters are mostly gone..

To meander around the woods is something rank amateur would do...or someone looking to
antagonize others

Once upon a time in a land far away the Hmongs were are friends..or at least many of them were others sold their opium to the NVA and so were their friends instead...

They seem to be more hard core socialists these days...at least as far as the public trough goes..
Since they invaded my little home town area the crime rate shot up and the quality of life went down the tubes..more so than just a sign of the times..

Money may not buy happiness but it sure buys loyalty too bad it cant buy decency imo

[JustAnotherOkie]

It has a semi pistol grip just like Kerry's shotgun.

The news people are really stupid.

[Godebert]

" You're splitting semantic hairs with your claim the Saiga SKS is not an SKS.

No he's not. There is no such thing as a Saiga SKS. The SKS and a Saiga (AK) are two completely different designs.

[NMC EXP]

It is a semi automatic knock off of the SKS.

Get over it.

I'll wager you see a real difference between a pre ban "assault weapon" complete with: pistol grip, bayonet lug, flash supressor et al and the cosmetically sanitized post ban version of the same rifle without said peripherals.

Well do ya?

[KoRn]

To gun grabbers an assault rifle is a sporting rifle. Also, any high powered rifle that will penetrate a bullet proof vest(all of them) is a "cop killer" rifle that should be banned. I could go on about how they want to ban guns based on cosmetic features, but there's no point in repeating the ignorance.

[Godebert]

"It is a semi automatic knock off of the SKS. Get over it. "

No...it's not. The Saiga is based on the AK design...not the SKS.

[Jed Eckert]

You're splitting semantic hairs with your claim the Saiga SKS is not an SKS.

Not at all. The Saiga is based on a highly modified AK receiver which cannot be easily converted,(if at all), into an 'Assault Weapon'. As delivered from the factory it won't even accept high capacity AK mags.

The SKS is a totally different design and off the top of my head I can't think of one single part that is interchangeable between an SKS and a Saiga, unless of course you count the ammo as a part. :)

Your argument might hold some validity if you said the Saiga was a modified AK. Sorry, it is not an SKS. Why the media and law enforcement got hung up on this SKS thing is beyond me. Only thing I can figure is that the Saiga does not project the evil image they want.

[cweese]

Thanks for the great explanation. I had no idea of what a problem it is up there. I hunt in deep So. Texas and about a month after 9/11, I was down for opening weekend of dove season. 2 well armed INS agents with 2 heavily armed game wardens drove up to check our licenses and count our posession of dove. They informed us that there was a dragnet in that area for the a-rabs heading to mexico to get out of the US for whatever reasons.

[NMC EXP]

So are you saying the Saiga is a knock off of the AK rather than SKS?

[Godebert]

Yes.

[muawiyah]

Section 12 of Article 8 of the Minnesota Constitution says: "Sec. 12. PRESERVATION OF HUNTING AND FISHING. Hunting and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage that shall be forever preserved for the people and shall be managed by law and regulation for the public good."

Wisconsin's Constitution states at SECTION 26 "The people have the right to fish, hunt, trap, and take game subject only to reasonable restrictions as prescribed by law."

Which ought to be pretty clear to anybody. In most/many states with this or similar phraseology, the interpetation is that the wild game and wild fish belong to the people of the state, not to the individual property owners.

Ergo, "poaching" is something that can occur only when the hunter doesn't have a license (from the state). A licensed game farm is a special case and I would imagine state laws vary widely. Odds are there are few constitutional law cases in any state regarding these institutions. However, it would seem to me that if you have your property properly posted it really doesn't matter if someone is hunting on it ~ they shouldn't be there and your recourse would most properly be to civil action in court.

Yours is the lebenteenth hundred posting in these threads noting that sheriffs seem loath to act on "poaching" or "trespass". I can understand the "poaching" problem perfectly since that's resolved instantly through the display of a proper license, and you don't own the animals at issue anyway. The "trespass" situation may simply be a case of an agrieved party not seeking the proper form of redress.

Whatever, it's probably a good idea to be extra diplomatic around folks with guns.

[Poser]

Get over it.

Get over what? You were wrong when you said it is an SKS. It is not an SKS. It is a semi-automatic rifle based on the SKS action as are the AK47 and a host of others.

Calling it an SKS does not make it an SKS.

Many bolt action rifles are based on the Mauser, but they are not Mausers. It's bad enought that the press can't get their gun facts right, we don't have to compound the error.

Shall we start calling every pistol with a double action trigger a Glock? I think not.

[concretebob]

When there's guns in the house, one better be yours.

I've always thought "poaching" was taking game out of season, on someone else's land.
Here in VA, you can shoot game any time, as long as you are on YOUR property.
"Ask for permission, before hunting or fishing on private property" is the rule here, also.