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Question for Teachers Re: 20/20 Episode

Posted on 11/19/2004 9:24:48 PM PST by lawnguy

Saw John Stossel's report on 20/20 tonight. He went into some detail about cheating in colleges, including rich kids who pay for others to do their work.

Do you guys see this, and what the heck can you do to stop it?

Would like to see a good discussion of this.


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1 posted on 11/19/2004 9:24:48 PM PST by lawnguy
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To: lawnguy

It is my belief that you have to teach them when they are 5 not to cheat. 18 might be too late.


2 posted on 11/19/2004 9:28:43 PM PST by msnimje
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To: msnimje

I should say, "start to teach them at 5"


3 posted on 11/19/2004 9:29:22 PM PST by msnimje
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To: lawnguy

Do you know the expression shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in a couple of generations? That's the end result.


4 posted on 11/19/2004 9:29:40 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: lawnguy

"It's not SO bad" "everyone does it" "School is tough" "If I don;t pass this test I'll fail the class"

How many excuses do we need? Values are taught first by a Mother and Father. If they don't learn, what does society expect?


5 posted on 11/19/2004 9:31:01 PM PST by endthematrix ("Hey, it didn't hit a bone, Colonel. Do you think I can go back?" - U.S. Marine)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: lawnguy

Toss anyone caught cheating out of school, publish a database of cheaters so that school admission departments can check applicants against it. Hell, make it public on the internet.


7 posted on 11/19/2004 9:33:07 PM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: msnimje

Heck, I didn't even know cheating was still needed, given grade inflation at most colleges. The fact is, cheating stems from the administration's need to quantify school performance with grades. There is no longer anything approaching a "Gentleman's C." If you don't graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you don't get a decent job.


9 posted on 11/19/2004 9:35:57 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: lawnguy

Grades based on in-class exams. Exams designed for individual classes. Exam questions to test knowledge, not mere facts.


11 posted on 11/19/2004 9:45:49 PM PST by Nova
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To: ZellsBells

And in ten years they'll wonder why their jobs were outsourced to a country where students actually studied.


12 posted on 11/19/2004 9:45:50 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: durasell
I went to a small college where we were sworn to an Honor Code. We could take tests home and it was simply understood we would not cheat. If you did, you were "Sent Down." Women left their purses unattended in the library all day long and I can't remember a single theft happening there.
13 posted on 11/19/2004 9:45:59 PM PST by msnimje
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To: ZellsBells

Right, it's not just Clinton-era, though I think that is part of it. I've had a few bosses who were Republican by registration, but not conservative in culture ("Country-Club Republicans"). They saw cheating as a game, being dishonest even when there was no significant gain to be obtained, just because they considered "success" as "how well they bypassed the rules". After working with such people, I realized that attitude was all around me.


14 posted on 11/19/2004 9:47:48 PM PST by Gondring (They can have my Bill of Rights when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!)
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To: msnimje

A little beside the point, but it sounds like a nice place.


15 posted on 11/19/2004 9:49:51 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: lawnguy
Cheating is acceptable and openly discussed on many college campuses. I have heard of cases where students are caught cheating and the dean refuses to discipline. They don't want the "bad pr" or don't want to deal with the issue.

If one college hammers students for cheating, they will go elsewhere. Grant money, tuition, funding follow.

16 posted on 11/19/2004 9:50:21 PM PST by stainlessbanner
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To: lawnguy

I think there are several things that can be done, to at least make this practice less prevalent.

If they use those graphing calculators, have them clear their memory before the test so their stored notes are deleted. The 20/20 special showed people using hand held computers for tests...to me that would just be a big no-no. How is that fair to the rest of the people taking it without one? In most standardized tests, they won't even allow you to use more advanced graphing calculators, so why the fancy pocket pcs? And cellphones? Won't it look obvious when someone is using a phone during a test? I imagine this would be harder to control in large university classes where you can't check every student's calculator, but in smaller highschool and college classrooms, it should be done.

As far as papers... turnitin.com is an excellent resource. I think most college students that cheat would copy some paragraphs off of the internet, rather than pay lots of money for fake papers (that doesn't stop the richer ones from doing so though). Turnitin.com will catch most of these people, if teachers actually use it. Most universities will have an account there, and teachers can have students submit their papers online on the site. It highlights the parts that look plagarized for the teacher to further review. Every time a paper is submitted, it is added to the database of papers to check against for future submissions. A lot of times, it highlights cited quotes, but if the student documented it properly, it will not be a problem. I don't know why more professors don't use this site...it's not much extra work at all.

And as a last resort, you could always check their wrists for rubberbands, and make them take the labels off their water bottles! ;-)


17 posted on 11/19/2004 9:50:25 PM PST by Loopy Picklefink (What do you call 10,000 liberals running across the Canadian border?.........A good start!)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: durasell
A little beside the point, but it sounds like a nice place

I do not see how it is beside the point. We were expected not to cheat and we rose to that expectation. Students today are trying to get jobs, please parents and get certain grades but do not have the moral underpinning to do that without cheating. They have to be taught that being honorable is a huge part of their education and honesty is expected of them. The epidemic of cheating is part of the dumbing down of America, both academically and ethically.

19 posted on 11/19/2004 9:54:33 PM PST by msnimje
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