Posted on 11/19/2004 9:24:48 PM PST by lawnguy
Saw John Stossel's report on 20/20 tonight. He went into some detail about cheating in colleges, including rich kids who pay for others to do their work.
Do you guys see this, and what the heck can you do to stop it?
Would like to see a good discussion of this.
Include India and China in there -- because while their rates aren't as high, the total numbers are higher.
The people in these countries aren't kidding around. They're very, very serious about building intellectual capital. And they are willing to invest a good portion of national treasure into it. What's more, they have little, if any, sense of entitlement. These countries are like Wal-Mart and we're the downtown merchant running a third generation business.
My point, I think, was that cheating has almost become "normalized." Read the business pages and you'll see a scandal a day.
So? Cuba and Nazi Germany had high literacy rates too. Don't prove much.
by the way... you tagline should be: "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue". [Barry Goldwater, 1964]
:-)
It will catch up to them when they get a job and then fall flat on their faces. Believe me the word gets out as to which schools allow cheating and eventually and those schools are not recruted anymore. I have seen this in my experiences with human resorces through the years.
Here's an outline of a speech that I would give if I'm teaching in college:
1. If you cheat, I will find out. If you turn in a bought paper I will find out about it. You will be doing enough writing in here on exams that I will be able to tell what you've written and what you haven't.
2. I reserve the right to conduct a pass/fail oral exam on material you turn in. I've given a lot of depositions to some very smart people and feel good about my ability to corner people who are being deceitful.
3. If you cheat in any way, you fail the class, and you won't be allowed in future classes.
4. You won't practice law in the state of Texas, at least not if I have anything to say about it. I will send a letter supported by an affidavit regarding this incident to the Board of Law Examiners who will likely open up a file on you, several years before you attempt to apply. I will do the same with the medical boards.
If this doesn't get their attention, then they are too stupid to get away with cheating. Admittedly, some of this might seem like tough talk, but I've done VERY well in the past persuading people with tough talk.
If I were fired for not apeasing cheaters, I wouldn't want a dime from that so-called institution.
If I were a teacher? Easy...no more tests or papers.
Students' final exam would be to get up in front of the class and LECTURE on a given (random) subject, just as a teacher does. Simple and effective, and no way to cheat.
I've seen exchange students and first generation Americans from India, China, etc. These guys are very, very serious.
And you can compare high literacy rates to fascist and communist countries all you want in specious arguments, but we're basically losing the battle for education and facing a future where 7 out of 10 decent jobs (or some such number) will require higher math or science in the future.
Yes, Mom & Pop are the first teachers. Then the children go to school where they're told that tho their moms and dads are good folks, they're not "professional" teachers; and even tho this is the way you did something at home, THIS is the way we do it at school. No one here is right or wrong, because there IS no right or wrong--there's mediation, extenuating circumstances, relativism. What need is there to "cheat" when competition's devalued anyway? No one's better than anyone else here, and we'll continue to teach at the rate of the slowest learner. Then, when you're a little older (middle school), you'll be taught by a team of teachers (none of whom is individually accountable for teaching any particular lesson plan), and YOUR team will prepare a diorama (on which you'll be collectively graded) reflective of the integration of your English, social studies, science and mathematics courses. You'll discover the 5-paragraph essay in high school and apply it to every single paper you write (especially in nonWestern "literature" and history) for four years while you accrue a variety of math courses with no apparent relationship to each other--at least one of which, if you're college-bound--will be AP (Almost Problem-solving). You'll take 4 or 5 years of a language which may result in your recognition on a map of the country in which it's spoken. Not much necessity to learn cheating before college; BUT once there, those 3 or 4 high school computer courses will enable you to plagiarize (no, not plagiarize: "emulate") online essays, papers, poetry, and theses. What's "cheating"?
Except now we live in a world that demands the quantifiable. How do you measure character? It's not that I don't believe character counts, but I do believe kids have picked up on something in the air that says weighs the odds against failure, cheating and getting caught.
TRUSTWORTHYNESS
Be honest • Don’t deceive, cheat or steal • Be reliable — do what you say you’ll do • Have the courage to do the right thing • Build a good reputation • Be loyal — stand by your family, friends and country
http://www.charactercounts.org/
The bottomline truth is that it doesn't matter. It's already become "common knowledge" and a oft recited mantra that the educational system is beyond repair. And that "throwing money at it" won't solve the problems.
So, if you tried to raise property taxes to boost education, people would scream like stuck pigs. And, in truth, many of them probably couldn't afford the increase.
What will eventually happen is many of America's middleclass kids will sink further down the global foodchain in terms of education. And rich kids will get the benefits of a private school education.
Thoroughly monitored standardized testing is the only way to overcome this sort of a problem.
Exactly. One of the people I am thinking of is very pro-RKBA, yet is pro-embryonic stem cell research/pro-abortion choice. RINO, or not? He's in favor of low taxes and votes Republican. I'm glad he's on our side for voting, but I don't like the attitude. I still get surprised when there are dishonest people on my side.
I know what story you're refering to and it's sad. The Paige mentioned is the Paige that the University of Missouri's new sports arena is named after....(sigh).
I was always ticked that they name the arena after a girl who does not even attend MU to begin with.....and then this 20/20 comes out and makes it even worse.
I do believe she is the child of one of the Wal-Mart heirs...but I may be mistaken.
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