Posted on 11/16/2004 4:34:34 AM PST by Atlanta
I'm going to start with a communication of support of this young Marine, to the Commandant of the Marine Corps himself. Then, President Bush and my Senator/Congressman.They are going to hear from me and I have all friggin day to do it. I am so livid about this that words cannot describe. As a former Marine myself, this young "Leather" was doing what he was trained to do, adapting to unreasonable circumstances (enemy tricks) and he did exactly what I would have done and what has always been done with a fanatical enemy. If authorities hang this Marine out to dry, I will never stop raising hell and will become a point man for pulling these guys out of theater entirely...MSM is SICK. Other suggestions?
Does anyone else think it was con-veeen-ient that the video tape "ran out" just as the marine allegedly pulled the trigger? I wonder what really happened.
btt
I emailed the scum photog and said that I hope he never had to rely on one of our heroes to watch his back.
Also suggested he stay there in Iraq and join the insurgents, he was a perfect fit!
"By rules, regs and decency, we do not shoot wounded enemy combatants. Period.
If this young Marine did so, he was in violation of those rules and regs.... and a sense of decency. In addition, by doing so, he gives equality to those who would say it's alright to shoot wounded Americans."
Wrong. In fact, I cannot begin to comprehend just how wrong you are. The FACT is that those rules are subject to certain conditions. Once certain conditions are satisfied, then it does indeed become illegal.
The other argument is of percieved threat. see my earlier posts.
"Trying to now invent some story that he was a suicide bomber is foolish. No one would believe it. Heck, you don't believe it, do you? There are times when you don't leave a combat-capable wounded enemy combatant behind you. By all accounts, this was not one of them."
Correct, speculation is foolish. But again, if the soldier felt threatened, (only he can make that determination), then UCMJ cannot touch him as he is without fault. The only thing that would have hurt him is if he shot the corpse repeatedly.
"There will be an Art 31 Investigation, and we will see where it goes.
We do not need any false jingoism about him being hung out to dry. He apparently screwed up. He got caught."
Actually, what we do not need, is more speculation and judgments against him. If he FELT threatened, then he "got caught" getting a clean kill.
Bottom line.
*before you flame me or call me a troll, or dismiss me as a newbie-- think carefully, I am Very familiar with this situation, as it happened to me in 2002.
Wait a minute. This was pool footage, what the heck was NBC doing giving it out to Reuters?! And if Sites thought a crime had just been comitted, why didn't Sites hand the tape over to the proper military authorities? Or aren't our service people entitled to due process? Just terrorists evidently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Arnett
The Baby Milk Factory Controversy
One of Arnett's most controversial reports during the Gulf War was a report on how the coalition had bombed a baby milk factory. Shortly after the report, an Air Force spokesman stated "Numerous sources have indicated that [the factory] is associated with biological warfare production". Later that day, Colin Powell stated "It was a biological weapons facility, of that we are sure". White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater stated "That factory is, in fact, a production facility for biological weapons," and "The Iraqis have hidden this facility behind a facade of baby-milk production as a form of disinformation." The image of a crudely-made hand-painted sign reading "Baby Milk" in English and Arabic in front of the factory, and a lab coat dressed in a suit containing stitched lettering reading "BABY MILK PLANT IRAQ" only served to further the perception that purportedly civilian targets were simply being made to look like that by Saddam Hussein, and that Arnett was duped by the Iraqi government. The sign appeared to have been added by the Iraqis before the camera crews arrived as a cheap publicity ploy. Newsweek called the incident a "ham-handed attempt to depict a bombed-out biological-weapons plant near Baghdad as a baby-formula factory."
Arnett remained firm. He had toured the plant in the previous August, and was insistent that "Whatever else it did, it did produce infant formula". Described as being a veritable fortress by the Pentagon, Arnett reported seeing only one guard at the gate and a lot of powdered baby milk, stating ""That's as much as I could tell you about it," he added carefully. "It looked innocent enough from what we could see.".
A CNN camera crew had been invited to tour this plant last August [1990]. They videotaped workers wearing new uniforms with lettering in English reading, "Iraq Baby Milk Plant." The correspondent, Richard Roth, was suspicious at that time and expressed doubts about the authenticity of the plant when he aired his report. Arnett expressed no such suspicions.
Interviewed later, the plant's French contractor who helped build it, Michel Wery, gave an interview in which he stated that the plant was producing solely baby milk when it started up in 1979, and was not equipped to breed pathogens. The plant closed in 1980, he said, when the last French technicians working for his company left Baghdad. No one from Wery’s company has been back since then. Wery said he had heard that production had restarted after the United Nations embargo put in place last fall, but he doubted whether that was possible after a 10-year lull. Two dairy technicians who had been in the plant at least four times since to make repairs; one stated that, during a visit as recent of May 1990, said that it was all normal dairy equipment and that the plant was actually canning milk powder. The suspicious uniform stitching was actually part of the original uniforms supplied by the French, and in fact the footage showing the uniforms was shot in August, 1990.
Part of the problem in reconciling the various U.S. and foreign accounts is that administration officials said they were constrained by security considerations from revealing exactly how they knew about the plant. At the same time, the New Zealand technicians and the French builder were not at the plant after May and cannot be certain of what happened after their departure.
White House reports diverged at this time. One official claimed that the plant was converted in 1990. Another claimed that it was a "backup" bioweapons facility, which had not yet been converted. A third said that it was not a bioweapons facility, but that it was used to make items crucial to bioweapons research; all three claimed insider information. In a confidential memo from December 1992, a State Department employee discussed the issue of the plant and reported that there were no hidden chambers or inappropriate machinery, and that it appeared to be a perfectly normal factory for producing powdered milk.
The Iraqi “Baby Milk Factory” camouflaged on the right
Enlarge
The Iraqi “Baby Milk Factory” camouflaged on the right
The plant had undergone security modifications since May of 1990. Amongst these were camouflage paint on all buildings in the complex, a security fence, and the positioning of two SA-2 Surface to air missile batteries. In addition, the Iraqis had claimed that they were getting powdered milk for the plant from Nestlé, but Nestlé said that was false. They said they had supplied no products to this plant.
Colin Powell gave the president a briefing a week before the plant was bombed. Powell told President Bush that intelligence based from agents inside Iraq stated that the Iraqis had altered the plant into a biological weapons plant.
Can you tell me a little about this story? I haven't heard about it. Pardon my ignorance on this issue.
I was in 187th :-)
I agree with you!These A**HOLES are booby-trapping their dead and wounded!!I would have done EXACTLY the same thing!!!
Isn't what the Marine did the same thing that the Dem Party Nominee this year for President did?
Oh wait the Marine didn't shoot the guy in the BACK!
Well send you in to clear or recheck the next mosque.
Sites will join the insurgents if you give him a rifle.
War is never going to look politically correct on video.
This reminds me of the Rodney King incident. The good guys have a thousand rules to check off while trying to protect themselves and the public. I imagine the adrenaline rush that this wounded marine was experiencing was 10x that of the black and whites in LA. The terrorists are the ones fighting to the death while faking death and surrender to get one last chance to kill an American. It is these rules of engagement that this incindent needs to be filtered through.
Are you KIDDING me?
I heard another story it seems this was a different troops that came upon these wounded iraqi which now differers meaning were they terrorist or citizens.
Anyway this second troops had NO idea if they were citizens or terrorist!
One thing for sure until this was sorted out never would we hear cofusing reports!
ONE THING FOR SURE THE MEDIA IS THE MILITARY AND AMERICA'S ENEMY!
Our own would not be so quick to cast us in a bad light until more was know and than after the war!
Our entertainers and media are tools of an also many they themselves are Marist!
Sorry, but I cannot support what this Marine did.
Unless there is a clear threat from the insurgent, the Marine should not have killed him.
He did not even take the time to asess the situation. The wounded man was breathing, and the Marine shot him. The guy wasn't even moving.
I know I'm going to get flamed for this. But before you do, I want you to know I have 3 loved ones in Iraq and I support the job they are doing. But this Marine acted in a very unprofessional manner. He didn't think, and in my opinion he committed murder by shooting an unarmed man.
I respect your opinion, but you are a little bit off. When dealing with a open ROE, then you have to use the precedent of percieved threat when dealing with wounded.
If the Marine did act out of haste and hypervigilance, he will be sent home and medically retired for severe PTSD. If he acted out of malicious intent, then UCMJ will judge accordingly.
Assuming otherwise could have gotten him and his entire squad killed or wounded. Get real. It's war, people die.
"He did not even take the time to asess the situation."
Well, maybe you should take charge over there. Pack enough of your vacation cloths due to all the time you'll have "assessing" the war zones. Enjoy (troll)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.