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Regarding questions surrounding Kerry's discharge...

Posted on 10/30/2004 10:47:26 PM PDT by mumzie

Had a thought tonight. Kerry is a Life Member of VVA (Vietnam Veterans of America). VVA fell out of VVAW. When folks join VVA, they are required to furnish their DD-214. I wonder if there is a copy of that lovely form anywhere on record in the VVA offices????

Anyone know???

TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: dd214; discharge; dishonorable; kerry; kerrydischarge
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1 posted on 10/30/2004 10:47:27 PM PDT by mumzie
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To: mumzie
I just had a deja vú moment. I could've sworn I just saw this question on another thread. BTW, what is a DD214?

Whoa. Another deja vú moment.

2 posted on 10/30/2004 10:50:17 PM PDT by Texas Eagle ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into." Jonathan Swift)
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To: mumzie
Oh, from the title I thought Kerry had some kind of veneral disease he was having problems with.

He has been hanging around Clinton recently so you never know.

3 posted on 10/30/2004 10:51:18 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Only dummies play poker with George W. Bush.)
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To: All

The Swifties seemed to be on to something with regard to this--something apparently very explosive, but it was suddenly hushed up. The reasons given ranged from "not credible" to "Rove thinks it would hurt Bush to appear that we're smearing Kerry late in the game".

Anyone know what's going on over there? I tried to wade through the posts, but I had a difficult time separating the meaty messages from the noise.

4 posted on 10/30/2004 10:52:31 PM PDT by Democracy In Iraq
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To: isthisnickcool

We think alike.

5 posted on 10/30/2004 10:53:01 PM PDT by MarkeyD (<a href=">Maggot</a>)
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To: mumzie

All this "discharge" stuff has the whiff of an Alex Polier sting to it. I think cancelling in Washington was a smart thing to do. From now until Tuesday, "steady as she goes" should be the mantra.

6 posted on 10/30/2004 10:53:36 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: All

What would happen, should GOD FORBID, Kerry win, and the true "less than honrable" discharge get out?

Anybody speculate?

7 posted on 10/30/2004 10:56:43 PM PDT by BigEdLB (BigEd)
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To: BigEdLB

MSM will continue to sit on their hands.

8 posted on 10/30/2004 10:57:24 PM PDT by MarkeyD (<a href=">Maggot</a>)
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To: Lancey Howard; Democracy In Iraq

Those of us that understand what care about what a discharge means also understand the implications of getting your Honorable Discharge years after getting out.

Coming out with proof of a less-than-honorable discharge this late in the election cycle will just look like dirty-tricks to people that don't already understand.

I wish that this had hit the fan before the last debate.

9 posted on 10/30/2004 11:01:38 PM PDT by SmithL (Vietnam-era Vet: Still fighting Hillary's half-vast left-wing conspiracy)
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To: Texas Eagle
Kinda wierd. Two threads, same question and idea.


10 posted on 10/30/2004 11:01:53 PM PDT by Cold Heat (
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To: Democracy In Iraq

Don't forget the SBV's have a special running this weekend - not Stolen Honor (which is also running).

I agree it might have been overkill. Everybody needs to just calm down.

Over on MSNBC they are running non-stop Kerry. Let them .. it just adds them to the discredited media .. along with CBS, ABC and NBC. Who cares what they do anyway, the people watching are already Kerry lovers. Their ratings are in the toilet.

11 posted on 10/30/2004 11:05:25 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Election 2004: This election is for the SOUL OF AMERICA)
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To: SmithL

Maybe, but I was never in the service, and "dishonorably discharged for treason" sounds pretty clear to me.

I can understand wanting to hush this up if the supporting information is choppy, but if someone has some actual documents to show us, and if they're presented by some 3rd party (ie Swifties rather than Bush campaign), and the information involves the words "dishonorably discharged" and "treason", I don't see any reason to keep a lid on it.

Just my two cents.

12 posted on 10/30/2004 11:06:40 PM PDT by Democracy In Iraq
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To: Lancey Howard
Not to unnerve you, but "Stolen Honor" is being run, full length, in multiple runs in markets covering 90% of the US population. It had at least 2 runs in Chicago and they have boght at least 2 hours for tomorrow, channel 38 PAX. It has also been on networks affiliates tonight including ABC Miami.

so much for low key and steady.

13 posted on 10/30/2004 11:06:50 PM PDT by cookcounty (-Will John Kerry seek a 4th Purple Heart for fingers burnt in the Battle of Al-Qa Qaa?)
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To: SmithL

You would think that a credible, hard-hitting investigative news operation like '60 Minutes' would have been all over this story.

14 posted on 10/30/2004 11:07:47 PM PDT by Lancey Howard (/sarcasm)
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To: cookcounty

A TV broadcast is a lot different than a march on Washington.

15 posted on 10/30/2004 11:09:34 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Democracy In Iraq
No, not a dishonorable, that takes a trial or judgment.

The general under less than honorable conditions is the next worse one. It does not require a major hearing and judgement, which would have been reported or recorded in public records.

16 posted on 10/30/2004 11:10:04 PM PDT by Cold Heat (
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To: Cold Heat

Is it possible to be denied an honorable discharge (even if not by way of dishonorable discharge) for treason?

That's the real explosive angle to this, the idea that Kerry was treasonous and that whatever treasonous act he committed is documented somewhere as part of his military record.

17 posted on 10/30/2004 11:14:10 PM PDT by Democracy In Iraq
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To: mumzie

interesting question

18 posted on 10/30/2004 11:15:20 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (BYPASS FORCED WEB REGISTRATION! **** ****)
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To: mumzie

Funny how the meida ignores this...yet is infatuated with Bush's guard service. Maybe if he met with the viet kong they wouldnt be so interested.

19 posted on 10/30/2004 11:15:23 PM PDT by xuberalles
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To: Democracy In Iraq

The Swifty researchers have found Official Viet Cong/ Gov of North Vietnam documents linking Kerry's VVAW with the Viet Cong/NVN. They show that Kerry was acting in accordance with their instructions. This can be found on There has also been a massive call to Sen Frist's Office by Vietnam Vets and other Americans demanding a Congressional Investigation or something along those lines. Here is a couple of the articles at Worldnetdaily:

second document reveals the degree to which Hanoi worked with and through the People's Coalition for Peace and Justice.
Of the U.S. antiwar movements, the two most important ones are: The PCPJ ((the People's Committee for Peace and Justice)) and the NPAC ((National Peace Action Committee)). These two movements have gathered much strength and staged many demonstrations. The PCPJ is the most important. It maintains relations with us.
Corsi and Swett note the House Internal Securities Committee in its 1971 Annual Report described the PCPJ as an organization strongly controlled by U.S. communists.
"There is no question but what members of the Communist Party have provided a very strong degree of influence, even a guiding influence, in the evolution and formation of policies of the People's Coalition for Peace and Justice."
Corsi cites recently released FBI surveillance reports that establish a strong link between Kerry, Hubbard, the VVAW, the PCPJ and their trips to Paris to meet with Madame Binh.
Kerry shared the stage with Hubbard -- who recruited Kerry into the group -- during the Dewey Canyon III protest, and they appeared together on NBC's Meet the Press April 18, 1971. Hubbard's claimed to have been a transport pilot wounded in combat, but the Department of Defense released documents showing he was neither a pilot nor an officer and had never served in Vietnam.
An FBI field surveillance report stamped Nov. 11, 1971, showed Kerry and Hubbard were planning to travel to Paris later that month to engage in talks with Vietnamese communist delegations. Other FBI reports clearly show the Communist Party of the USA was paying for Hubbard's trips to Paris, Corsi notes.
Another FBI report, dated Nov. 24, 1971, gives details of Hubbard's presentation to a VVAW meeting of the Executive and Steering committees in Kansas City, Mo., Nov. 12-15, 1971.
At that meeting, the VVAW considered and then rejected a plan to assassinate several pro-war U.S. Senators. Kerry is listed as present.
The FBI document shows communist coordination in Hubbard's trip to Paris.
[BLACK OUT] advised that Hubbard gave the following information regarding his Paris trip:
Two foreign groups, which are Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) and Peoples Republic Government (PRG) (phonetic), invited representatives of the VVAW, Communist Party USA (CP USA), and a Left Wing group in Paris, to attend meeting of the above inviting groups in Paris. Hubbard advised he was elected to represent the VVAW. An unknown male was invited to represent the CP USA and an unknown individual was elected to represent the Left Wing group from Paris. He advised at the meeting that his trip was financed by CP USA.
Corsi and Swett cite an appeal letter written by Hubbard April 20, 1971, demonstrating the strong coordination between Vietnam Veterans Against the War and People's Coalition for Peace and Justice.
Addressed from the offices of the VVAW in Washington, D.C., the letter asks VVAW members to provide assistance to the PCPJ. It discusses several ways in which the two organizations have worked closely together:
This is an appeal for help for the Peoples Coalition for Peace and Justice. Over the past months the Peoples Coalition has supported the Vietnam Vets Against the War in many ways. The Coalition has made office space available at no charge, and permitted the use of all necessary office equipment such as mimeograph machines, stencil-making machines, folders and typewriters. They have loaned us cars, bullhorns, and public address equipment. Their staff has taken messages for us and joined fraternally in building our progress. Now we can return this support.
Saturday, April 24, the Coalition needs help collecting money and selling buttons at the great march and rally. Collectors and sellers must be energetic and determined. There will be security problems in taking large amounts of money to banks. The Coalition needs people power, hundreds of workers.
I earnestly hope that you will come forward to support our friends in this emergency.
Two days after Hubbard's letter was written, Kerry told Sen. William Fulbright's Foreign Relations Committee that American military in Vietnam were committing war crimes in the manner of Genghis Khan.
The event mentioned in the letter was PCPJ's massive April 24 demonstration in Washington that followed the VVAW's Dewey Canyon III protest.

Third Vietnamese Communist Document that Ties Kerry to Hanoi is discovered in archive
WorldNetDaily ^ | 2004.10.28 | Art Moore
Posted on 10/28/2004 1:55:06 AM EDT by TeleStraightShooter
A third, newly discovered Vietnamese war document presents further indication Hanoi orchestrated John Kerry's promotion of the communist regime's 1971 plan calling for virtual U.S. surrender.
As WorldNetDaily reported Tuesday, two documents found in a U.S. archive over the weekend provide the first concrete evidence that Vietnamese communists were directing Kerry's antiwar group Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
The New York Times covered of John Kerry's Washington press conference in 1971
One of the two documents, a "circular" captured by the U.S. in 1971 and later translated, indicates the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese delegations to the Paris peace talks that year were used as the communications link to direct the activities of Kerry and other antiwar activists who attended.
Now, a third document provides more context, showing that Kerry's July 22, 1971, press conference calling on President Nixon to accept the seven-point plan presented by Viet Cong leader Madame Nguyen Thi Binh was perfectly aligned with Hanoi's step-by-step agenda.
"If you look at the sequence of events, it would certainly seem Kerry was following a plan and was not just simply acting spontaneously," said Jerome Corsi, a specialist on the Vietnam-era antiwar movement and co-author of "Unfit for Command," the best-seller challenging Kerry's qualification to lead the nation.
Kerry insists he attended the talks only because he happened to be in France on his honeymoon and maintains he met with both sides. But previously revealed records indicate the future senator made two, and possibly three, trips to Paris.
At the subsequent press conference in Washington, Kerry surrounded himself with the families of POWs, a strategy espoused in the recovered communist circular.
The Kerry campaign has not responded to WND's request for a response to the discovery of the two documents.
The third document shows that when Madame Binh came to Paris in 1969 with the North Vietnamese delegation, Hanoi was directing its propaganda efforts toward winning the hearts and minds of South Vietnamese.
But the communist regime began to realize in 1970 and early 1971 that it could not defeat the U.S. militarily, and so the target of propaganda shifted to the antiwar movement in an attempt to erode resolve on the American homefront.
Then Hanoi launched a series of coordinated efforts, leading to Kerry's press conference.
"The series of dates and actions hardly look coincidental," said Corsi.
Vietnamese Communist Party leader Le Duc Tho delivered to Paris a plan promoted by John Kerry.
In the last week of June 1971, Le Duc Tho – the second most powerful communist leader, next to Ho Chi Minh – arrived in Paris as a special counsel to the Vietnamese delegations.
On July 1, closely on the heels of Tho's arrival, Madame Binh delivered the seven-point plan to U.S. Ambassador David Bruce in Paris.
A New York Times report at that time specifically noted the plan came after Tho's arrival.
The plan was presented not through the head of the delegation, Xuan Thuy, but through the Viet Cong leader, Madame Binh, who first met with Kerry in the summer of 1970.
Twenty-one days later, Kerry was in Washington advancing Binh's proposal, which would force President Nixon to set a date to end the war and withdraw troops. Hanoi cleverly constructed the plan so that the only barrier to release of American POWs was Nixon's unwillingness to set a withdrawal date, but it amounted to a virtual surrender that included payment of reparations and an admission the U.S. was the aggressor in an immoral war.
"When President Nixon got this peace plan, the White House didn't know what to do," Corsi said. "It was an entirely new initiative."
The White House sent Secretary of State Henry Kissinger to Paris July 12, and seven days later, the South Vietnamese submitted a counterproposal to enact a total cease-fire and put the issue of reunification to a nationwide vote.
"In the middle of these intense negotiations and posturing to Madame Binh's proposal, Kerry volunteered to hold a press conference advocating the Viet Cong leader's position," Corsi explained.
"He had no role to insert himself in this process," he asserted. "Nixon and Kissinger were trying to deal with a difficult negotiating situation."
In an article on the press conference, the New York Times noted POW families were upset because it appeared Kerry, who had dropped out of a bid for a seat in Congress, was motivated by his own political aspirations, using the event as a springboard to political office.
When Kerry began to introduce relatives of prisoners who stood beside him behind the microphones, he was met with the fierce objections of four wives of POWs in the audience.
The women shouted to Kerry, "That's a lie," and "What office are you going to run for next?"
The Times said one of the POW wives accused Kerry of "constantly using our own suffering and grief " for his political ambitions.
When asked if he planned to run again for political office, the Times reported Kerry replied only that "he was committed to political change and he would use whatever forum seemed best at the time."
The captured Vietnamese circular stated that previously, the dissent among U.S. military personnel largely existed only in the Army, but had expanded to the Air Force.
Kerry's use of Air Force POW families helped spread the dissent in a concerted way, Corsi maintained, getting the relatives to accept Binh's proposal and say, "Let's put an end to this."
The circular said the peace plan "not only solved problems concerning the release of U.S. prisoners but also motivated the people of all walks of life and even relatives of U.S. pilots detained in [North Vietnam] to participate in the antiwar movement."
"Kerry, by holding the press conference, supports the argument that the antiwar movement is behind this plan," Corsi said.
The media event, consistent with plans developed and delivered in Hanoi, was "designed to have maximum impact emotionally on the antiwar community in the U.S.," he emphasized.
Corsi said the Kerry campaign's silence on the new discovery of the documents mirrors its unwillingness to respond to the charges of "Unfit for Command" until it was obvious the presidential candidate was suffering political damage.
"The charges in the new documents have been out there for a full day," he pointed out. "Had the documents not been authentic, the Kerry camp would have been all over them, to discredit them."

20 posted on 10/30/2004 11:15:50 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie (Defending America)
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