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Evidence of WMDs in Iraq - Annonymous Freeper in Iraq
JEFFHEAD.COM ^ | 22 Oct 2004 | Jeff Head

Posted on 10/21/2004 11:45:00 PM PDT by Jeff Head

No Chemical or other WMDs in Iraq?


Here are some pictures from our Annonymous Freeper in Iraq. Barrels of chemicals and other material he has observed in Iraq this year.





Note the picture of the Dimethyl sulfate barrel. This chemical was used as a chemical warfare agent in World War I. Its Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) gives the following information:
This compound is extremely hazardous because of its lack of warning properties and delayed biological effects. It may cause burns of the skin, eyes, and mucous membranes. Eye damage may be permanent. Effects may be delayed occurring hours after exposure. Skin permeation may occur in toxic amounts. Both the fumes and the liquid may produce severe irritation. Inhalation may cause irritation of the nose, throat and lungs. Death may occur from overexposure. Prolonged exposures may cause liver and kidney effects. DuPont controls this compound as a potential carcinogen.

Dimethyl sulfate vapor and liquid is extremely hazardous because of its deficient warning properties (NO ODOR THRESHOLD, LOOKS LIKE WATER, AND HAS ANALGESIC EFFECTS) and delayed biological effects. DMS hydrolyzes to methyl hydrogen sulfate and eventually sulfuric acid and methanol. Skin or eye contact with low concentrations of Dimethyl Sulfate may cause analgesia (numbness). Therefore, the corrosive action of Dimethyl Sulfate may not be readily detected.

Skin contact with Dimethyl Sulfate may cause skin burns or ulceration. Inital effects include itching, reddening of the skin followed hours later by severe blistering. Evidence suggests that skin permeation can occur in amounts capable of producing the effects of systemic toxicity. Eye contact with Dimethyl Sulfate may cause eye corrosion with corneal or conjunctival ulceration. Permanent eye damage may occur. Both the vapors and the liquid can cause severe irritation; upon slight vapor exposure the whites of the eyes turn red (bloodshot).

Ingestion of Dimethyl Sulfate may cause severe irritation of the mucous membranes of the mouth, throat and gastrointestinal tract.

Inhalation of Dimethyl Sulfate may cause irritation of the upper respiratory passages, angioneurotic edema of larynx with hoarseness, difficulty in swallowing; temporary lung irritation effects with productive cough, discomfort, difficulty breathing, chest pain, shortness of breath or cyanosis; or possibly modest initial symptoms, followed in hours by severe shortness of breath, requiring prompt medical attention. In severe poisonings, central nervous system effects may occur which include unconsciousness, cramps or convulsions, and paralysis. Fatality may result from gross overexposure.
Also note the barrel indicating it is some sort of chlorine. Chlorine Gas was also a chemical weapon used in World War I. Crates, barrels and boxes of other stuff as well. I believe the Kurds and the Iranians were familiar with some of this stuff.

No "trace' of WMDs in Iraq at all? You be the judge.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: blisteragent; chlorine; dimethylsulfate; iraq; iraqchemicals; iraqifreedom; iraqwmds; waronterror; wmd; wmdfinds
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To: Husker24

"Im not trying to burst anyones bubble or anything, just dont get too excited"

You aren't busting, just misundstand what you're seeing.

There is a scheme in place to make it possible to ship hazardous materials worldwide and to communicate the hazzards associated with materials deemed hazardous.

Accordingly, all such materals are assigned a "UN" number, a univerally accepted index number, which has nothing what-so-ever to do with the UN inspectors.

A look at the US Dept. of Transportation hazmat tables indicates the following:

Proper Shipping Name: DIMETHYL SULFATE, TOXIC-INHALATION HAZARD ZONE B
Hazard Class: 6.1, 8
UN/NA: UN1595
Packing Group: I
Information reported for product/size: 500G

The name shown above is how the material must be described on shipping documents and the "mark" which is what you are seeing on the barrel.....actually that name plus the UN number is the legal "making".
(Note: this is very nasty stuff)
The Zone B indicates that this material is designated as an toxic inhalation hazard. This tells us that anyone near should have a breathing apparatus and the material requires "extra special handling" beyond other toxic materials.

Hazad class 6.1 indicates that the material is toxic, the 8 indicates that it is also corrosive. The 6.1 appears first which tells us that the toxcity is a greater hazard than the corrosivness of the material.

The packing group indicates that this material must be packaged in a UN tested/specification container of the most stringent requirements. There are three packing groups, 1-3 and 1 being the most dangerous of materials.

Finding this material doesn't in and of itself indicate a "WMD" but it could be used to harm others with devestating effects.


81 posted on 10/22/2004 6:16:43 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: GeronL; Jeff Head
you got me convinced. But I'm easy

But are you cheap? ;^)

But seriously, we all know that Sadham had chemical weapons and wanted nuclear weapons in the worst way. He did, beyond a doubt, use deadly chemical weapons on people in his own country more than once
Where they went before the war is the larger question.

82 posted on 10/22/2004 6:18:12 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Allegra

But that's one day less than yesterday!
And tomorrow it'll be 59 days.
Keep the chin up, and spirits high.
Thanks for being there.


83 posted on 10/22/2004 6:21:28 AM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Jeff Head

"If you feel there is no value in the thread"

I think there's some merit and bolsters my feelings that what has been found isn't being discussed enough.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some products have duel usage. Further some materials are "pre-cursor" materials, that is they start out as one thing but can be further processed into something else. A good example is the pesticides found.

On the one hand they can be used to kill bugs, weeds etc. but they can also be used "improperly" harm humans or to be chemically transformed into a much more toxic material.

Many pesticides derive their efficacy by affecting the nervous system of the pest the are intended to kill. These materials can also affect the nervous system of humans and or also toxic to humans.

If there has been any discussion around these possibilities I haven't seen it and I think it's a grave oversight and minimization of the real hazards of the many materials we've turned up in Iraq.

One possible explanation......these discussions have indeed taken place, but why publicize to the terrorist how easy it would be to take these duel use materials and use them for nefarious purposes?








84 posted on 10/22/2004 6:27:38 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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Those pictures look like they were made in my garage.

If they found them weeks ago, they should have been released. If they release the pictures now (and they are accurate) you will hear "dirty trick."

Unless you have video of the guys finding them, with the most current New York Post in their hands, and Kerry bumper stickers on their helmets...no one will believe it.


85 posted on 10/22/2004 6:29:38 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (I am not from Vermont. I lived there for four years and that was enough.)
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To: Jeff Head

Was there any point of origin on them?


86 posted on 10/22/2004 6:32:20 AM PDT by bmwcyle (I wear sleepwear therefore I think (When they are off I am single minded))
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To: Strategerist

Jet fuel isn't truly lethal, but it still took down the World Trade Center.
The left likes to use the buzzwords "militarily significant", but on 9/11 were those aircraft used in militarily significant quantities?

Chemical weapons can kill, period.
They can kill mass numbers of people with minimal effort.
The only limiting factor is the efficiency of the delivery system.

I had a relative who died due to mustard gas poisoning.
He didn't die during the war, no, that would have been merciful.
He died a slow lingering shriveling death with his skin blistered and his lungs filling with fluid.
Disgusted my great grandfather so much that he hated Germans afterwards.
And he was German.

You want to try to tell me that chemical weapons aren't WMD?


87 posted on 10/22/2004 6:33:05 AM PDT by Darksheare (Ganags of epopel shall stune your beeber with "UNNNGH!")
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To: Jeff Head
Nice find. Please pass along my thanks to AF.

L

88 posted on 10/22/2004 6:45:23 AM PDT by Lurker ( Rope, tree, Islamofascist. Adult assembly required.)
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To: Jeff Head

Thanks Jeff.You've been a Freeper far longer than those who are giving you grief over this.If you say your source is legitimate,that's enough for me.


89 posted on 10/22/2004 6:49:27 AM PDT by quack
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To: Jeff Head

Interesting discussion. I'm of the mind that he had them, obviously used them, and wanted to continue to use them. I'm remembering posts, when we got to Baghdad, about stuff being dumped into the Tigris, finding planes that were buried in the sand, the Russian technical weapons advisers being in Baghdad to advise how to break down these weapons right up to the time the shooting started, etc,etc,etc.

Only a fool would believe Saddam complied with UNSCOM and got rid of these weapons. The nagging fear is, where are they now?

GWB made the right call.


90 posted on 10/22/2004 7:02:25 AM PDT by baseballmom (You Know Where I Stand - GW Bush - 9/2/04 We're standing with you, Mr. President)
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To: Jeff Head

DMS will be absorbed by human skin... with whatever other chemical it contains.. like ricin... or some other chemical.. DMS has other uses too but the first one is what came to mind..


91 posted on 10/22/2004 7:06:54 AM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Jeff Head

Funny thing about MSDS. Here's one that's used everyday in the food industry. This is a product that most people injest everyday......Pretty nasty stuff.....
HAZARD IDENTIFICATION



Route Of Entry Inds - Inhalation: YES Skin: YES Ingestion: YES
Carcinogenicity Inds - NTP: NO IARC: NO OSHA: NO

Health Hazards Acute And Chronic: ACUTE:INHAL:IRRIT/NARC. 2100 PPM IDLH. INHAL OF 100 PPM FOR 15 MINS PRDCD NOSE & THROAT IRRIT IN HUMANS. CHEST DISCOMFORT OCCURRED @ 400 PPM. INHAL OF CONCS OF 2100 PPM FOR 1-3 HRS BY MICE, RATS, RABBITS & CATS CAUSED RESTLESSNESS, SIGNS OF IRRIT, HEAD COLDS & EXCITATION FOLLOWED BY SLEEPINESS. RABBITS(EFTS OF OVEREXP)

Explanation of Carcinogenicity: NOT RELEVANT

Signs and Symptoms of Overexposure: HLTH HAZ:ALSO SHOWED KIDNEY INJURY. OTHER RPTD EFTS INCL NAUS, HDCH, DIZZ, FATG, DULLNESS, WEAK, ANESTH, UNCON, POSS ASPHY & ANEMIA. DEATH MAY BE DUE TO RESP FAILURE. SKIN:IRRIT. APPLICATION OF 10 MG FOR 24 HRS TO RABBIT SKIN PRDCD IRRIT. L IQ DEFATS SKIN CAUSING DRYNESS. ABSORPTION MAY OCCUR. EYE:IRRIT. VAPS (ING 8)

Medical Conditions Aggravated by Overexposure: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.



FIRST AID


INHAL:REMOVE FROM EXPOS AREA TO FRESH AIR IMMED. IF BRTHG HAS STOPPED, PERFORM ARTF RESP. KEEP PERS WARM & AT REST. TREAT SYMPTOMATICALLY & SUPPORTIVELY. GET MED ATTN IMMED. SKIN:REMOVE CONTAM CLTHG & SHOES IMMED. WASH AFFECTED AREA W/SOAP/ MILD DETERGENT & LG AMTS OF WATER UNTIL NO CHEM REMAINS (15-20 MINS). GET MED ATTN IMMED. EYE:WASH IMMED W/LG AMTS OF WATER/NORM SALINE, OCCAS LIFTING (ING 18)



FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES


Flash Point Text: 133F,56C

Auto Ignition Temperature Text:

Lower Limits: 1.8% Upper Limits: 6.9%

Extinguishing Media: DRY CHEM, CARBON DIOXIDE, WATER SPRAY/ALCOHOL-RESIST FOAM. LGR FIRES:WATER SPRAY/ALCOHOL-RESIST FOAM. ALCOHOL FOAM.

Fire Fighting Procedures: USE NIOSH/MSHA APPRVD SCBA & FULL PROT EQUIP (FP N). MOVE CNTNR FROM FIRE AREA IF YOU CAN DO IT W/OUT RISK. APPLY COOLING WATER TO SIDES OF CNTNRS THAT (SUPDAT)

Unusal Fire/Explosion Hazard: MOD FIRE HAZ WHEN EXPOS TO HEAT/FLAME. VAP-AIR MIXTS ARE EXPLO ABOVE FLASH PT. VAPS ARE HVR/AIR & MAY TRAVEL CONSIDERABLE DIST TO SOURCE OF IGNIT & FLASH BACK.



RELEASE MEASURES


Spill Release Procedures: SHUT OFF IGNIT SOURCES. STOP LEAK IF YOU CAN DO IT W/OUT RISK. USE WATER SPRAY TO REDUCE VAPS. FOR SM SPILLS, TAKE UP W/SAND/OTHER ABSORB MATL & PLACE INTO CNTNRS FOR LATER DISP. FOR LGR SPILLS, DIKE FAR AHEAD OF SPILL FOR LATER DISP. NO (I NG 22)
Neutralizing Agent: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER.

Waste Disposal Methods: OBSERVE ALL FEDERAL, STATE & LOCAL REGULATIONS WHEN DISPOSING OF THIS SUBSTANCE.



HANDLING AND STORAGE


OBSERVE ALL FED, STATE & LOC REGS WHEN STORING THIS SUBSTANCE. STORE I/A/W 29CFR1910.106. STORE AWAY FROM INCOMPAT SUBSTANCES. VAPS MAY BE EXPLO/POIS.



EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION


Respiratory Protection: SPEC RESP MUST BE NIOSH/MSHA APPRVD: 1000 PPM:ANY CHEM CARTRIDGE RESP W/FULL FACEPIECE & ORG VAP CARTRIDGE, ANY POWERED AIR-PURIFYING RESP W/ORG VAP CARTRIDGE; 1250 PPM:ANY SUPPLIED-AIR RESP OPERATED IN CONTINUOUS-FLOW MODE; 2100 (ING 23)
Ventilation: PROVIDE LOCAL EXHAUST VENTILATION TO MEET PELS. VENTILATION EQUIPMENT MUST BE EXPLOSION-PROOF.
Protective Gloves: IMPERVIOUS GLOVES (FP N).
Eye Protection: SPLASH-PROOF/DUST-RESIST SAFETY GOGGS.
Other Equipment: APPROP PROT (IMPERVIOUS) CLTHG & EQUIP. EYE WASH FOUNTAIN W/IN IMMEDIATE WORK AREA FOR EMERGENCY USE.
Work Hygenic Practices: APPROP PROT (IMPERVIOUS) CLTHG & EQUIP. EYE WASH FOUNTAIN W/IN IMMEDIATE WORK AREA FOR EMERGENCY USE.
Supplemental Safety & Health: FIRE FIGHT PROC:ARE EXPOS TO FLAMES UNTIL WELL AFTER FIRE IS OUT. STAY AWAY FROM ENDS OF TANKS. FOR MASSIVE FIRE IN CARGO AREA, USE UNMANNED HOSE HOLDER/MONITOR NOZZ; IF THIS IS IMPOSS, W/DRAW FROM AREA & LET FIRE BURN. W/DRAW IMMED IN CASE OF RISING SOUND FROM VENTING SFTY DEVICE/ANY DISCOLORATION OF TANK DUE (ING 2)



PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES


Boiling Point:
328F,164C
Melting/Freezing Point:
-53F,-47C
Decomposition Temp:
N/K
Vapor Pressure: 0.8 20C Vapor Density: 4
Specific Gravity: 0.9
PH: N/K
Viscosity: N/P
Evaporation Rate & Reference: 43.5 (CCL4=1)
Solubility in Water: MISCIBLE
Appearance and Odor: COLORLESS LIQUID W/MILD, KETONE ODOR.
Percent Volatiles by Volume: N/K
Corrosion Rate: N/K



STABILITY AND REACTIVITY


Stability Indicator: YES
Stability Conditions to Avoid: AVOID CONT W/HEAT, SPKS, FLAME/OTHER SOURCES OF IGNIT. DO NOT OVERHEAT CNTNRS. DO NOT ALLOW UNNEC PERS IN AREA.
Materials to Avoid: ACIDS, AMINES, AMMONIA, BASES, ISOCYANATES, NITRIC ACID, STRONG OXIDIZERS, PERMANGANATES, PYRIDINES, (ING 5)
Hazardous Decomposition Products: THERMAL DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS MAY INCLUDE TOXIC OXIDES OF CARBON.
Hazardous Polymerization Products: NO
Conditions to Avoid Polymerization: NOT RELEVANT



92 posted on 10/22/2004 7:16:23 AM PDT by joesbucks
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To: Husker24

"You notice the white lettering on the barrel in the first pic, the chemical name and then the letters "UN". Ill bet those barrels were found during the first inspections just after Gulf War 1, so this would be on the list of declared stuff."

You know, that raises another whole set of interesting questions. Think about it. You're a brutal dictator. The UN has "stockpiled" your declared WMDs. What does it matter whether they are in your warehouse or the UN's? You know where they are. If you need them you just in and take them. Bottom line, if they are not destroyed, and they are still in your country, there nothing stopping you from taking them and using them if you so decide.

Not to pat myself on the back, but I've never seen that concept discussed. Could the argument not be made that Saddam's WMDs were in essence being kept by the UN and were at his disposal any time he decided it was no longer necessary to play the game?


93 posted on 10/22/2004 7:18:26 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom!)
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To: Jeff Head

I think you might get famous with this post.


94 posted on 10/22/2004 7:21:29 AM PDT by Preachin' (Kerry/Rather 2004)
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To: Darksheare
But that's one day less than yesterday!
And tomorrow it'll be 59 days.
Keep the chin up, and spirits high.
Thanks for being there.

Oh, time goes by fast here. It's hard for me to believe I've been here nearly ten months. I usually dread Christmas sneaking up real fast, but this year, I'm very enthusiastic about it because I'll be re-enetering the "Real World" for over three weeks. (I'll even get to go to a Texans game!)

Thanks for your kind words.

95 posted on 10/22/2004 7:22:39 AM PDT by Allegra (They Done Broke My Heart Again...sigh...)
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To: joesbucks

"Funny thing about MSDS"

Yes it is. That's why employees by OSHA regulation are required to be notified of their availability and how to read them.

Is there some reason you didn't list the ingrediant or ingredients upon which the sheet was filled out? This is material to a proper understanding of the hazards to be conveyed.


96 posted on 10/22/2004 7:38:18 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Jeff Head
"Like you, I believe there was and is ample evidence of WMDs in Iraq. I also believe that we were justified in going in there with or without it. Saddam flaunted the agreements he signed to establish the cease fire from Desert Storm. It was time to make those agreements mean something...long since past time IMHO."

Exactly. Especially because of the mixed signals we were getting from the inspectors. Was it in 1998 that Blix (or the other guy) suggested very strongly that there were some stockpiles still in Iraq that were either not inspected or inspected and not disposed of? Sadam refused to allow the inspectors in after that.

Then all of a sudden the inspector said Iraq was clean, though we were still unable to confirm that and Saddam still wouldn't let the inspectors in. I think that was about the time Saddam hired the inspector to write a book.

97 posted on 10/22/2004 7:39:40 AM PDT by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be.")
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To: Jeff Head
I never got a reply to an e-mail I sent the CIA before the ISG released its report regarding the stockpiled pesticides stored in Iraqi munitions dumps. The gist of it was: "Which pesticides? In terms of cutaneous LD50 tetraethylpyrophosphate (TEPP) is about as toxic as sarin, and the Canadian intelligence services list both TEPP and parathion as potential chemical agents for a terrorist attack." We know from the news reports of their finding that they field tested as nerve agents, and sickened the troops who found them with symptoms consistent with nerve agents.

Not being an organic chemist or weapons expert, I don't know whether TEPP has some property that makes disbursal by artillery shell (or bomb) infeasible, but I sure as heck don't want an al Qaeda cropduster loaded with the stuff anywhere over the US. I searched the ISG's public report and it didn't mention pesticides except in the context of discussions of the Iraqi chemical industry.

I've been wondering ever since whether, as the suggestion in this post has it, the Ba'athists just stockpiled chemicals which could be used both as CW agents and for other purposes--not dual use technology, dual use weapons.

98 posted on 10/22/2004 7:42:27 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was)
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To: RandallFlagg

I agree. The fly paper caper is working. The old 'Bait And Swat' technique. Heh.


99 posted on 10/22/2004 7:52:03 AM PDT by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be.")
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To: piasa

Thanks for your analysis. Lots of good food for thought there.


100 posted on 10/22/2004 7:56:28 AM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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