Posted on 10/17/2004 2:40:08 PM PDT by freepatriot32
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- The U.S. Army Reserve soldiers who refused orders to drive a dangerous route were members of one of a few supply units whose trucks are still unarmored, their commanding general said Sunday.
The soldiers, now under investigation, had previously focused on local missions in safer parts of southern Iraq and had never driven a convoy north along the attack-prone roads passing through Baghdad.
"Not all of their trucks are completely armored. In their case, they haven't had the chance to get armored," said Brig. Gen. James E. Chambers, commanding general of 13th Corps Support Command, which sends some 250 convoys ferrying Army fuel, food and ammunition across Iraq each day.
Chambers, speaking at a press conference in Baghdad, said the 18 soldiers involved in the incident had returned to duty and it was "too early" to determine if any will undergo disciplinary action.
He said a pair of investigations are examining the soldiers' disobedience as well as their allegations that the trucks were unfit for the hazardous journey. He declined to discuss particulars, citing the soldiers' rights.
Chambers said 80 percent of the 13th Coscom's 4,000 trucks have been fitted with custom steel plate, but some of those in the unit that balked, the 343rd Quartermaster Company, were among the last left unarmored, because the unit's mission normally confines it to a less dangerous part of Iraq.
None of the 13th Coscom's trucks arrived in Iraq with armor. Since February, the unit's engineers and private contractors have been working in impromptu maintenance yards to weld heavy metal "boxes" over truck cabs.
Chambers said the 18 soldiers who refused the mission on Wednesday morning - driving seven fuel tankers from Tallil air base near Nasiriyah to Taji north of Baghdad - also appeared to have also balked at their mission because of the trucks' bad condition.
"They were concerned about the maintenance," Chambers said. "If there is a maintenance issue, we'll clear it up."
Chambers downplayed the incident, saying the disobedience not indicative of wider U.S. Army morale or maintenance problems. The 18 soldiers were "moved to a separate location" for questioning and have all since returned to duty, the general said.
But Chambers did not downplay the danger of driving Iraq's roads, a job that has become the equivalent of front-line combat with Iraq's insurgency, whose deadliest weapon is the hidden roadside bomb.
"In Jim Chambers' opinion, the most dangerous job in Iraq is driving a truck," he said. Soldiers take their missions realizing "it's not if, but when, they will be attacked."
The Army announced last week it was investigating up to 19 members of a platoon from the 343rd Quartermaster Company based in Rock Hill, South Carolina.
On Wednesday, 19 members of the platoon did not show up for a scheduled 7 a.m. meeting in Tallil to prepare for the fuel convoy's departure a few hours later, a military statement said.
The general said a pair of investigations were already under way, and said there were just 18 soldiers whose actions were being probed.
The first investigation, overseen by the 13th Coscom's inspector general and deputy commander, is looking into maintenance and safety practices at the Talil air base, where the 343rd is based.
The second, headed by the commander of the 300th Area Support Group, has ordered a criminal inquiry to determine if any soldiers committed crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and, if so, whether disciplinary measures are warranted.
"Based on our investigations, other actions may be necessary," Chambers said.
As a result of the incident, the entire 343rd is in the midst of a two-week "stand down," bolting on new armor and upgrading maintenance on its vehicles. The 18 soldiers under investigation must complete additional training and win re-certification to regain permission to perform convoy missions, Chambers said.
He said the incident and ongoing maintenance pause had no effects on supplying the U.S. military here. The 21-vehicle convoy still made the run Wednesday, albeit late.
The 15,000 troops under Chambers' command - almost 90 percent of whom are Reservists or National Guard soldiers - have completed 75,000 convoy missions covering the length and breadth of Iraq and suffered 26 killed since April, Chambers said. No members of the 343rd have been killed in Iraq in the nine months they've been here, the general said.
He denied claims by some of the soldiers to their families that the fuel they were to deliver was contaminated. The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina.
What does an 'uparmored' fuel tanker look like? ;~)
This is terrible.
Every soldier should have been outfitted in 3" of depleted uranium armor with air conditioning and a vibration massage unit to ease the tension of combat. Not only that, but they should have been able to drive their convoy by remote control from the relative safety of an underground bunker specially constructed back in their hometowns in the U.S. Kerry would never have allowed U.S. troops to be treated in such a heartless manner. He has a plan.
Right now you do not know the whole story, so you do not know if it was a lawful or unlawful order. From what I have read it seems to be lawful, but then again this unit has been there for 9 months and this is there first complaint.
Don't you hate it when that happens?
Exactly. These people should be court martialed. It is a breakdown in military discipline, end of discussion. If you let them get away with this, who is to say what the next group will object to when they refuse their orders? This lot belongs in Leavenworth. If there was really a problem with the equipment, there was a way they could approach their CO and point out the problems. If the CO said, "I know, I'm sorry, but that's the best we have right now and there is the objective, and you're nominated," then the only reply befitting an American serviceman was 'YES, SIR."
Sandbags are VERY effective, somewhere on the internet are guidelines, if I recall 12 inches is supposed to stop anything below .50cal
I know that...but did they use the same vech, that the other crew refused?
jack deth they do have something to replace the hmmv for this type of stuff. the hmmv was never desigened to be an armored personel carrier. the m1117 guardian looks like it would do well. It has an enclosed gunners turret and is similar to a stryker but it has 4 wheels.
Had 2 flak jackets in Desert Storm, sat on 1, put 1 in the floor of my GMC Jimmy.....
Ninety-nine times out od a hundred I'd agree with you but there is that instance where you come up with some numbnut officer who doesn't think about what he's asking his troops to do. Let's see what an investigation says.
Still not answered is whether they were to be sent out without the gun trucks and helicopters that are SOP according their General. On Fox earlier today he said there was supposed to be a gun truck for every five convoy vehicles and helicopters. If they had these they need to be punished severely regardless of the armor situation. If not they still need to be punished and who ever did not arrange the proper cover needs to go down hard.
Yes, that's what he said they did. And despite the heat, yet because of the heat, they had to zip up the canvas top to keep the 140F air from moving around them as they drove, or it would burn. Burn, like the ceramic plate in his flak vest did on his back one day from spending all day in the sun (it literally cooked inside his flak jacket, left a near 2nd degree square red patch on his back). But did he ever refuse orders? No.
And thank YOU "raynearhood" for your service! :)
Then I would say it was disobeying a direct order and they will pay a high price for their mutiny. I know that when I joined the service I knew I was joining the military. I would have to think long and hard before I disobeyed a direct order.
We can operate remote vehicles on Mars...well...kinda. But I think the real plan is to identify and detonate the roadside bombs before they blow up one of our vehicles. No idea on how to do it...but it would be the most logical and cost effective method, IMO. It would save our men and women and our vehicles.
Until we know the full story...I'm not ready to hang ANY of our men and women serving in combat zones and it is a shame that any of us here sleeping in our nice, warm, comfy beds eating home cooked meals are so quick to jump on them.
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