[Atlantic Friend]

Then I guess it's OK Pope Pie XII was cosy with Mussolini, Franco abnd Hitler - he was just making sure some greater good could come out of their demise afterwards. And maybe the Holocaust was good, too, because it allowed for reduced anti-semitism after WW2 ?

Sheesh. Hard to stay Catholic when I read this.

[aruanan]

Then I guess it's OK Pope Pie XII was cosy with Mussolini, Franco abnd Hitler - he was just making sure some greater good could come out of their demise afterwards. And maybe the Holocaust was good, too, because it allowed for reduced anti-semitism after WW2 ?

And what about this Lucifer's fall thingy? And is the Pope going to go full Calvinist by asserting that man was tempted and fell into sin by the express will of God for God's greater glory?

[wideawake]

Pope Pius XII was "cozy" with neither Mussolini nor Hitler. Repeating a lie a thousand times doesn't make it true.

And there is nothing wrong with supporting Francisco Franco. He was a Christian gentleman who saved his country from becoming a Stalinist puppet state.

Or perhaps you support Stalinism. That would explain your hatred for the Pope.

[Pyro7480]

You've drunk the left-wing Kool-aid on Pius XII. See post 9 too.

[Rutles4Ever]

Topic: Jesus not only permitted, but SELECTED Judas to be an apostle.

Discuss.

[american colleen]

Here are some headlines from the New York Times back in the day. It's odd that the NYT of today is one of the biggest critics of Pius XII when 60 years ago they applauded him.

"The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness is doing for us," Chief Rabbi Herzog of Palestine wrote in one of his many wartime communications to the Holy See. On October 11, 1945, the New York Times reported a gift to the Vatican of $20,000 from the World Jewish Congress "in recognition of the work of the Holy See in rescuing Jews from Fascist and Nazi persecution."

· "NAZIS WARNED IN LOURDES": reporting the protest in 1935 of then Cardinal Pacelli against "superstitions of race and blood." When Pacelli was elected Pope on March 2, 1939, the Times reported "nearly general applause around the world," except in Germany.

· "POPE CONDEMNS DICTATORS, TREATY VIOLATORS, RACISM": three–column front–page headline reporting the Pope’s first encyclical, October 28, 1939.

· "VATICAN DENOUNCES ATROCITIES IN POLAND; GERMANS CALLED EVEN WORSE THAN RUSSIANS" (January 23, 1940).

· "JEWS’ RIGHTS DEFENDED": reporting the Pope’s "burning words to [Nazi Foreign Minister] Ribbentrop in defense of the Jews in Germany and Poland" (March 14, 1940).

· "Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas. . . . The Pope put himself squarely against Nazism" (December 25, 1941).

· "The papacy is throwing the whole weight of its publicizing facilities into an exposé" of Nazi atrocities (through Vatican radio): January 24, 1942.

· "POPE IS SAID TO PLEAD FOR JEWS LISTED FOR REMOVAL FROM FRANCE" (August 6, 1942). And on August 27: "VICHY SEIZES JEWS; POPE PIUS IGNORED."

· "This Christmas [1942] more than ever [the Pope] is a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent": editorial on the Pope’s reference to "the hundreds of thousands who, . . . solely because of their nation or race, have been condemned to death or progressive extinction."

· On August 21, 1944, Pulitzer Prize laureate Anne O’Hare McCormick wrote in the Times that the Pope had given "first priority" to saving Jews.

· "Under the Pope’s direction the Holy See did an exemplary job of sheltering and championing the victims of the Nazi–Fascist regime. . . . None [in Rome] doubts that the general feeling of the Roman Curia was anti–Fascist and very strongly anti–Nazi": Times reporter Herbert L. Matthews, October 15, 1944.

[jscd3]

Then I guess it's OK Pope Pie XII was cosy with Mussolini, Franco abnd Hitler

As OK as you posting nonsense, yes I suppose...

[tiki]

I do think you're mistaken about Pius XII. Do a little googling, he has been smeared, mostly by one play which was taken as gospel but he did a lot to help the Jews. I won't argue with you but I'm sure that you know that good people can be smeared by their enemies and good people will believe their lies.

The head Rabbi of Rome became a Catholic after the war.

[Aquinasfan]

And maybe the Holocaust was good, too, because it allowed for reduced anti-semitism after WW2 ?

Sheesh. Hard to stay Catholic when I read this.

Could God have prevented the Holocaust from happening? If not, He would not be all-powerful. If He could, why did He not? The only possible answer is that He allows evil so that greater good may come.

Remember that the greatest good is eternal life with God, not temporal happiness. The difference between eternal life with God and earthly happiness is the difference between the infinite and the finite. There is no comparison. Therefore, the Holocaust in some way must have served to bring more people to eternal life with God, which is God's ordaining Will for all men.

1 Timothy 2:3-4

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved...

[Grzegorz 246]

What's your problem ?

[Conservative til I die]

By all means please leave. And quickly.