[ovrtaxt]

Patterson also tentatively identifies Deputy National Security Adviser and political consigliore Sandy Berger as the one person holed up on the night of July 17 with Clinton in the family quarters. No document could be more damaging to the Clinton legacy than Clinton's handwritten notes on Bojinka and related plans. Pilfering these might be worth the risk of getting caught. Ah, Mr. Stuffydrawers surfaces...

[Peach]

The History Channel did an interesting show on this last week.

[ovrtaxt]

ping!

[zip]

ping

[backhoe]

This is old, but may have some info folks have forgotten about:

TWA 800- who speaks for the dead?

[stockpirate]

There is a website dedicated to this event by former airline polits.

http://www.twa800.com/index.htm

[federal]

bookmark

[Finalapproach29er]

My old man flew the 747 more hours than anybody in the world, and I can tell you notion of the center tank blowing up, as suggested, is laughably absurd. It's not a plausible lie.

[Finalapproach29er]

When did Osama declare war on us-1996?

[TomGuy]

TWA 800

Murrah Federal Building

Flight 587

====

Officials would have pawned the 9-11 attacks off as 'accident' if al-Qaeda had used only one plane and flew it into one of the Twin Towers or Pentagon. Four planes were impossible to call 'accidental'.

Isn't it curious how the name 'Jamie Gorelick' shows up in association with TWA 800, Murrah, and 9-11 Commission? GWB should have allowed John Ashcroft to fully vent the Gorelick 'wall' memos, instead of criticizing Ashcroft. ===

[MamaLucci]

There's a reason Clarke wants President Bush to lose.

[Just mythoughts]

bump

[PGalt]

bump

[ml/nj]

TWA 800 "It wasn't terrorists. It couldn't have been."

It's a shame that Cashill spreads disinformation about TWA 880, and taints anything he might say about Ron Brown or Oklahoma City.

ML/NJ

[7.62 x 51mm]

I have two friends who were at an outdoor, rooftop party in Long Island, that night, with 30+ others. They saw the shootdown. He's ex-military and saw the white, ordinance explosion, followed by the yellow, jet fuel blast. The FBI interviewed them and didn't follow-up any further.

I've also believed it was a MANPAD, based upon Mike & Cheryl's story, plus all available evidence I've read to date. The coverup is monstrous and still ongoing, but the truth will come out, as it will for OKC.

[ovrtaxt]

OKC-911 CONNECTION ALERT. Please let me know by freepmail if you want to be put on or taken off this list. Thanks.

[thinking]

Look people; this aircraft was shot down...it was taken out by a foreign submarine, or fast surface boat...the military were tracking the vessel, and it eluded them...it was am arrogant affront to the military...just a taste of what is/was to follow.....

[tdadams]

In the world of computer network security, there is what's known as a "proof of concept" attack.

The purpose is for a hacker to show off to the rest of the hacking community that some heretofor task believed to be impossible could actually be accomplished.

TWA 800 seems to parallel that kind of attack, only with much bigger stakes involving a group much more dangerous than a loose association of pimple faced kids, the international terrorist community.

Who would have ever believed you could take down a large American commercial airliner, on American soil, with a shoulder launched missle... until the concept was proven?

[Quilla]

I believe the comments by the junior Senator from Massachusetts lend considerable credibility to this thesis:

In the last few weeks several political insiders have forgotten themselves and referred to TWA Flight 800, the airliner, which exploded in July of 1996 just east of New York City, as a terrorist incident. But only one has done it twice.

That person is Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts. Appearing on "Larry King Live" on Sept. 11 of this year, Kerry suggested that TWA Flight 800 was brought down by a terrorist act.

The second admission took place on Sept. 24 on "Hardball" with Chris Matthews. On this occasion, Kerry casually recited a number of terrorist attacks against the United States, among them TWA "Flight 800." Like Larry King before him, Chris Matthews either did not catch the remark or chose to let it pass.

Source.

[robertpaulsen]

"Purchase "Mega Fix: The Dazzling Political Deceit That Led to 9-11" now!"

Ah.

I wonder how many copies he'd sell if he claimed it was indeed the center fuel tank.

[tang-soo]

I've posted this top a few other threads. Please ignore if you've seen it before ...

I called our local Clear Channel station the night after this story broke and spoke for about 10 minutes describing the procedures used to handle classified information. The following is a basic description of what I said ...

1) A person who wishes to review classified information at a given facility must have his/her clearance on file with the security office that has legal custody of the information.

2) Once they arrive to the facility, they must show their credentials to identify themselves, sign into the facility - maybe issued a badge indicating their clearance and access and escorted to the room where the material will be reviewed.

3) A quick sidebar on program access and document marking. The term "Access" refers to the concept of "Need to Know". The fact you have a clearance that matches the level required to have access to the material does not establish your "need to know". It must be determined by someone like a program manager or security personnel that your job function requires access to certain information. If you are granted access, you may be required to go through another level of investigation. Some levels of access (at least the ones I was exposed to) are known as "Special Need to Know" or SNTK (pronounced Snick) and "Special Access Required" or SAR. Programs with these designations require special prominent markings on each page of a classified document along with the classification level. Believe it or not, after all the markings (top and bottom) there usually is enough room for the content of the page.

4) I should also mention that each paragraph of the document starts with a designation indicating the classification level of that paragraph. This would look like (U), (C), (S), (S/SAR), (S/SNTK), (TS) or (TS/SAR). Every page is marked top and bottom based upon the highest level of any paragraph on that page. ie. it's possible to have an unclassified page in a top secret document. And as you might think, the overall classification of the document is classified at the highest level of any single page.

5) This next point is especially important in light of the current investigation. Every page is marked "Page x of y Pages". For example page 13 of a 32 page document would be clearly marked in the banner section of the page "Page 13 of 32 Pages". This is done for obvious reasons - if any page is missing, it can be accounted for. The page count is also part of the document's registration in the security catalog.

6) Once in the room, the container (probably a safe i.e. a very heavy duty file cabinet with heavy combination locks with different combinations on each drawer) is opened. This process should be logged by security personnel.

7) The documents are taken from the container. All classified documents are stamped (each page) with items such as a control number, date of creation, level of clearance (top and bottom), program name indicating what access is required and eventual dispensation (i.e. when the material is designated to destruction if applicable).

8) If the documents are classified "top secret", each document has a log on the cover sheet. EACH time a person has access to this information, they must sign and date it.

9) The material is not to be removed (ie stuffed in underwear, socks ... etc) without approval of security personnel. If this takes place, the transfer is documented on both ends of the transaction. If the material is top secret or above, it requires at least two cleared people as an escort.

10) If you travel overnight, the material is not to be kept in your hotel/motel room but instead must be taken to an approved facility. Arrangements are usually made in advance. Security people do not like suprise visits. They like to make them but not receive them.

11) No photocopies are to be made or notes copied without the proper security personnel logging this activity and making appropriate markings (mentioned above) on the documents.

12) This material is frequently audited by internal security agents and is subject to "suprise" audits conducted by military, FBI or other external security personnel.

13) People given access to this type of information are briefed and attend classes on how to handle this material - ie. no excuses for "honest mistakes".

14) As the NSA for the Clinton administration, I imagine Berger was personally responsible that this protocol was designed, implemented and enforced by his staff - at least in an appropriately managed administration. This would apply to government employees, officials, military personnel and civilians under contract and extended clearances issued by the DoD, DoE or other intel operations.

15) As such, ANYBODY who has worked in this environment and heard Mr. Berger's comments yesterday about being "sloppy" and "an honest mistake" knows beyond any doubt that he was not only lying, but this was a premeditated act.

16) I left the aerospace business(as an engineer) in 1993 so these comments are based upon the security world of that time. Only Lord knows how the Clinton administration changed things during his 8 years.

That summarizes what I mentioned to Steve Cannon of WTVN 610 AM (Columbus, Oh) the night after the story broke.

I should have added another issue that may pertain to the current case. The concept of "Working papers". This would be scratch material that is never intended to end up in a document being prepared. For example, preliminary drafts, graphics with various scales, handdrawn sketches, ... etc. Usually, this kind of material is kept in a folder or envelope which is marked as a regular document would be. This folder falls under the same criteria as a regular document ie locking up when not being used ... etc. Usually, this material is collected on a regular basis when the work is finished and tossed into a "burn barrel". The burn barrel is emptied periodically by cleared personnel and either burned or processed through an approved shredder (ends up as dust).

The latest word I have heard is that this material was classified "Code Word Access". Folks, if true, this is "Above Top Secret" ie. John Pollard type material.

So the question comes to mind, why would anybody do such a thing under conditions where he knew he stood a huge chance of being caught? The mission must have been extraordinary for such a risk. The presumption is that he wanted to alter or remove and destroy material that implicated either himself, or quite possibly Mr. Clinton. The fact that some of the material is "lost" implies that regardless of the consequences, the mission has been accomplished with his current situation collateral damage.

Webb Hubbell's infamous quote "I guess I'll have to roll over again for Hillary" comes to mind. Another example of the Clinton whirlwind leaving a trail of destruction in its wake.

I should stress that I'm no security expert - but I did work in that environment for nearly 12 years as an engineer in the aerospace industry (stealth technology). Amongst my duties, I was also the secured computer contact person during our department's audits with "The customer" and the FBI. This included things like proving procedures were being followed concerning the registering, cataloging and tracking of classified storage media, secured networks, hardcopy audit trails ... etc. It was not very exciting work - very boring but also needed.

Because of this work, I have a good idea of what that part of the world looks like. Who knows though after #42 and his crowd. I remember how O'leary (spelling) turned the DoE upside down with her wacky ideas of security. Remember the classified media supposedly found behind the copy machine during the Wen Ho-Li case? I have a friend who works for a private computer consulting firm that is contracted by the DoE and I think the DoD to perform inspections at government and contractor facilities. He told me the rules changed significantly during Clinton's years (to the worse) but I have no first hand knowledge.