Posted on 10/04/2004 12:03:24 PM PDT by MississippiMan
The issue of what Kerry brought with him to the podium is not a petty one. A candidate who had simply a list of talking points on paper would be at a huge advantage vs. the other participant who played by the rules.
Based on the most recent reports here, it sounds as if even Fox News is about to forget and drop the issue, since they've declared that they're 99% certain the object in question is a pen.
It's hard to fathom what's going on here, unless they're viewing an incomplete clip of what took place. For even the low-resolution copies of the event that are posted online make it blatantly clear that, yes, he had a PEN (OBJECT 1) in his RIGHT hand, but he also removed a LIGHT-COLORED RECTANGULAR OBJECT (OBJECT 2) from inside his jacket with his LEFT hand. He then handles the object in a fashion that suggests UNFOLDING, and places it on the deck of the podium.
As mentioned already, I am a digital forensics examiner. I have a state-of-the-art forensic video system. I have briefly examined the low-resolution clips of the event, and at first impression, OBJECT 2 appears to be a folded sheet or sheets of light-colored paper. It is DEFINITELY rectangular. It is DEFINITELY light-colored. And it is DEFINITELY distinct and separate from OBJECT 1.
I would very much like to examine a high-resolution version of the clip; ideally this will be an uncompressed digital video file digitized from a digital broadcast master. If anyone has any connections or access to one of the networks or C-SPAN or whatever, and can obtain said file, it would be immensely helpful.
This is about playing by the rules, folks. I for one am sick and tired of sitting back and watching the rules broken without consequence. It is high time to hold people accountable. That applies to the candidates and the media, whether the media member in question is CBS or Fox News Channel. If it's wrong, it's wrong. And if they're reporting that Kerry brought nothing but a pen to the podium, THEY'RE WRONG.
MM
Then... you're not really interested in Bush winning. You're interested in being a cyber-sleuth.
>>>The contenders were each given paper and pen to write with that was at the podium in advance.<<<
Hmmm. Maybe he was just "accidentally stealing" it. Altho, I would have expected him to be stuffing it down his pants or in his socks ala Sandy Burglar.
<><
Give it up.... Bush lost plain and simple.
NOW is the time for Bush to get rested, get prepped, and kick that poodle's ass on Friday!
DVDs are compressed, Gary, and thus detail is lost. Depending on the different steps it went through, and the compression schemes chosen, the DVD footage could wind up being excellent or poor. (This is one reason why you see reviews of DVD movies talk about the quality of the transfer and such.)
I will probably go ahead and order one, though, in case it's simply the best I can get.
MM
HANNITY IS ALL OVER THIS....
I wasn't talking about this event specifically. Look at the dems overall campaign. Every other word out of the spokespeople on tv is....liar. They are involved in voter fraud. Every time Kerry's mouth is open a lie comes out. I was making the point that apparently the voting public believes this crap, otherwise the race would not be as close as it is.
How is that playing into the dems hands?
Sounds to me like facts.
Yeah but the Dims are showing a clip that shows W unfolding a piece of paper.
Check W too. The Dims are saying that he unfolded a piece of paper.
When you or I break the law we are subject to immediate and harsh penalties. And we should be. When Liberals, when the media icons, when the Hollweird Elite break the law, they are excused, covered-up for and swept under the rug of complacency. Damn tired of these Jackals getting away with everything from Treason to Murder!
Dear Lord folks....do you realize how silly this makes us look? We are grasping at straws. I hope you are right, but even so, we probably can't prove it. Let's not give off the appearance of looking desperate.
1) Don't skew questions to be anti-Bush, like asking if the casualties are worth it, sheesh
2) Will they please familiarize themselves with Kerry's liberal senate voting record and ask a question about that. SHEESH.
How can these moderators IGNORE the fact that Kerry has a long senate record?
First Presidential Debate: Jim Lehrer (PBS)
Second Presidential Debate: Charlie Gibson (ABC) www.abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA_email_form.html
Third Presidential Debate: Bob Schieffer (CBS)
Though I have no way to be sure, based on the info I have it's looking doubtful that the event was shot in hi-def. I have access to HD-Net (carried both conventions in hi-def) as well as CBS and NBC hi-def stations; none of the three had the debate in hi-def.
But, the increase in resolution of detail vs. what we're seeing online, and what the networks can see on a DigiBeta master (even if not in hi-def), is dramatic.
There also exists the possibility that there are even more camera angles out there that we haven't seen at all.
MM
The issue is character, not who supposedly won the debate.
"We expel Cadets from the Air Force Academy for this type of Cheating on tests. Certainly cheating on the Election For President of the United States is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT than a test at the Academy! "
Exactly!!! There have been Army, Navy, Air Force and collegiate candidates washed out of a service career for lower-level cheating than this alleged cheating. Numerous coaches have lost their job in the last few years because of errors on their resumes. But people want to give John Kerry a pass for cheating in the Presidential debates? This is a potential PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, people. If he did some underhanded sleight of hand to pull out some papers or a PDA in order to cheat, that alone should disqualify him in most peoples' minds from the office. Whether or not it actually helped him, or how Bush performed, is completely beside the point in judging the severity of the transgression, if it happened.
Some of the posters complaining about looking into this are the same people who are complaining that W wasn't aggressive enough in the debate, and that the RNC doesn't follow up on Dem cheating. But then you want to turn passive if you think looking into it might look bad for New Media? MississippiMan is a video forensics examiner, for Gods sake. He's asking for the digital video. Fox should supply it to him and other qualified individuals, if they're on the up and up. If they don't, it looks bad for them and their conclusions.
This is not a minor thing. If he did this, it's a MAJOR issue. If he didn't, then the Democrats shouldn't mind experts looking at the video.
It's playing into their hands by turning the election into a pissing contest that WE WILL LOSE.
The issue is character, not who supposedly won the debate.
Maybe so, but I think it's a stretch to think he wouldn't know that paper and pen would be provided. And even if he was superstitious about using a certain pen or even paper, the rules state CLEARLY that these items are to be given to the debate officials for inspection, after which THEY will place the items on the podium. I just don't think it's credible that he didn't know that. Also, when you're preparing to take notes, would you want to do so on a piece of paper that had been folded, or on a nice crisp flat sheet?
MM
Character doesn't matter. If it did, Bill Clinton could not have possibly been elected to the presidency twice. If you want to fight the battle on character, there's all kinds of footage of John Kerry admitting that he committed atrocities in Vietnam, backstabbing his fellow soldiers in front of Congress with patent lies. This is child's play compared to THAT dereliction. Yet, no one seems to care.
This is a dead-end battle. Move on. Kerry wants to make us a subsidiary of Europe, and we're arguing over crib notes at a debate.
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