Nadine Davidoff.....
Posted on 10/04/2004 7:31:17 AM PDT by dead
Nadine Davidoff has had enough of men assuming that what gay women really want is a bloke.
When you see two girls walking down the street arm in arm there are a few of safe assumptions you could make about the scene; either the girls are friends or they are gay - they could even be partners. However, a certain subset of heterosexual men inexplicably arrive at a completely different conclusion: that the girls are putting on this display for their benefit and that they secretly want the men to join in the fun.
Who knows where this misconception comes from? Centuries of male privilege perhaps; a notion that everything in this world is created for their enjoyment? But this is the post-feminist age and men have long since ceased to be our supreme rulers. Which poses the question: what part of the word "gay" do these men not understand?
We are not helped, of course, by the likes of Madonna and Britney Spears, who recently engaged in a tongue-twister for precisely the purpose of revving up heterosexual men. I am sure they enjoyed themselves (well, Britney surely did) but did they realise that this wanton publicity stunt trivialises and misrepresents every genuine display of affection between lesbian women?
A case in point; one warm Sunday afternoon, I was walking along Bondi Beach hand-in-hand with my girlfriend. Deep in conversation, we suddenly became aware of a fat, hairy man barrelling towards us with his arms outstretched. "How 'bout a threesome ladies?" he leered as he attempted to enfold us in a group hug. It didn't take us very long to come up with an appropriate response to this invasion, and we promptly told the fool to bugger off. But sometimes, it's a little bit more tricky.
For example, my girlfriend dropped me off at yoga one evening, and as we parted, she gave me a quick kiss goodbye. "Nice kiss, girls," drawled a male member of the class as he stepped into the room. As I followed him into a quiet candlelit studio with members of the class already deep into their postures, it didn't seem quite right to ruin the serenity with a loud four-letter word.
It does help though, to have your mother on hand. Strolling past Ravesi's in Bondi one hot afternoon (yes, hand-in-hand with my girl) the hairy boofheads spilling out of every open window could not contain their excitement, and proceeded to hassle us with catcalls and whistles. By now, quite used to this graceless display, we walked blithely on. Not so my mother, for whom this was a new experience. "What's wrong with you all?" she scolded as she turned to face them. "They're not doing it for your benefit."
I have never seen a bunch of men sink faster into their beers. Clearly, if there's one thing heterosexual men are still afraid of, it's their mothers.
I think the original point was that historically men have been physically and psychologically dominant over women in sexual relations. The word 'natural' was brought into it in order to rebut that position.
Natural is a vague and poorly defined word and has little or no bearing on the historical reality of the male-female relationship. Perhaps rape is unnatural. Male dominance may be unnatural for all I know. (I guess it depends on whether you include some or all of the animal kingdom in your reckoning of 'natural' behavior.) History is a record of what has happened. I suppose it could be argued that man's behavior throughout history is unnatural.
We do the same and have been newly married a few more months (60).
WHen I see a hetro couple I thinks lucky gal she has a sex life.
When I see a lesbian or gay couple I think 1. If females yuck how can they do what they do 2. Two men I think damn two women somewhere are not getting taken care of.
Is this hate no it is called Hetrosexuality. Get use to it!
"It's like a perpetual-motion machine of joy!"
I know what you mean- we should e-mail her this thread - then read about ourselves in her next editorial.
Well, the fact is that most lesbians tend to be either average or downright masculine in appearance. The "lipstick lesbians" (attractive and feminine) of fantasies are rare outside of Cinemax.
Yep, like eating ice cream cones or eating a lollipop.
I don't think ANY sexual contacts should be publicly displayed. Makes others uncomfortable.
Are you daring to imply that Cinemax after 10 PM is not an accurate depiction of relationships and the world?
The "lipstick lesbians" (attractive and feminine) of fantasies are rare outside of Cinemax.
You should check out "Girls gone Wild" (or so I've heard) - or go to a college party - (I've been told) - These young girls can hold their own - of course when it comes to sex, I hold my own too....
Nadine Davidoff.....
When I see *any* couple going at it in public, I think that they should get a room and not subject the rest of us to having to watch them have foreplay.
And speaking as someone who lives in Manhattan, I've *rarely* seen gay couples (male or female) even holding hands in public, but I have been in subway cars or waiting on line in stores while straight couples were going at it pretty heavily. If it involves hands in pants or up shirts, save it for home.
Man, I dunno. I've never found it particularly useful to try to intellectualize something like sexual attraction. Two hot women doing it turns me on, two hot men doing it turns me off. So shoot me.
Err, uh, if these 'young girls' are holding 'their own' then they're not young girls. I guess you can hold yours any way you want to. ;^P
Of course not! All women have silicone boobs and like to diddle each other while waiting for some horny guy to come along and treat 'em like REAL women!
;D
I agree and that's why it is important to look beyond the use of the word and to examine the underlying arguments.
One might justify his use of the term natural to describe rape on the grounds that rape can be found to occur in nature. That same person might want to invite his reader to draw the inference that the term natural is being used in a more narrow sense - to suggest that rape is normal, understandable, even perhaps acceptable in some basic, primitive sense. And that is why it is so important to carefully examine the arguments that are being offered to justify the use of the term natural.
Rape is natural only in the sense that it can be found in nature. Rape is not natural, if by natural is meant normal or understandable or acceptable. In nearly every society, rape is a losing strategy. ;-)
For the most part, they're not dykes. They're usually drunk and/or stoned, and do it to turn on the drunk and/or stoned guys around them. ;)
They may do that in public, but I guarantee you that they go home with guys, not girls.
I dont want dudes lookin' at my pic...thats a little "ghey".
"Homosexual male sex is universally abhorrent (even to homosexual males) because it turns this deep-seated psychological truth on its head. One man loses the power to say no. One man attempts to surpass another in the creation order. Both become abomination."
Yes I think you're on to something. The "equality" of homosexualty of gay vis a vis lesbian has always been problematic for me. The model I use is the sex act itself. 2 males perform the actual act of sex identically to that of a heterosexual couple. Thus, the act itself, is an abmonination, a corruption of the very nature of procreational sex. 2 lesbians are performing acts which are not, by definition, procreational and does not insult the very nature of basic sex. A heterosexual couple, a man and a woman of course, who engage in non-procreational sex acts is not an abomination since the acts themselves mosly imitate what is acceptable in nature. As we have seen throughout human history, there are serious consequences for going against nature. We see today what the consequences of persistently oversteping the bounds of sexual nature: disease, terrible pain, loss of vital bodily functions and eventually death. Mother Nature will ultimately be the final arbiter of how man will engage in his most personal pleasures. And remember, it's not nice to fool Mother Nature!
I doubt that the married German woman is one and the same with this Australian lesbian.
"Males get turned on by watching two women. Pornography bears me out."
Yes, it does. But not all males are "turned on" by watching two women. Not all males view pornography. Not all males do any particular behavior.
Bottom line is that some males are "turned on" by a hole in a fence.
Good points but I didn't say "all" men. Thank God there are some good ones like you out there.
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