Posted on 09/30/2004 9:40:58 PM PDT by Mike Fieschko
HMCS Windsor will be without torpedoes until 2006, a high-ranking Canadian naval officer says."That's probably right," Capt. Dean McFadden, who commands Atlantic operations, told reporters on board the submarine as it conducted exercises off the coast of Nova Scotia.
The Halifax-based submarine, which was originally supposed to be ready for operations in July 2001, began a year of testing last spring.
While the sub is not yet armed with torpedoes, which will be its only external weapons, it has embarked on several official missions.
"This submarine has been engaged in domestic operational patrols, not exercises, since the spring," Capt. McFadden said.
Earlier this year, HMCS Windsor operated on the Grand Banks off Newfoundland, conducting surveillance and gathering information for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans while remaining undetected, Capt. McFadden said.
"That's commonly how we're tasked," he said. "We also do operations in support of the RCMP."
He declined to elaborate on details of the operations, in case the evidence gathered has to be used in court.
Canada's customs and immigration officials will also probably make use of the country's recently acquired submarines for their work, which doesn't require that the boats have external weapons, he said.
The submarine's ability to operate while remaining undetected for long periods of time and over great distances makes it an attractive addition to any naval force, he said. The sub is covered with special tiles to reduce its detection by sonar.
HMCS Windsor's counterpart on the West Coast, HMCS Victoria, is undergoing trials and working on preparing its weapons systems, Capt. McFadden said.
"So they're carrying the lion's share of that development," he said.
HMCS Windsor is developing its navigation and surveillance skills first and will integrate its weapons systems later.
HMCS Windsor is one of four diesel-electric-powered Victoria-class subs that were built in the late 1980s and early 1990s for the British navy, which mothballed them in 1994 when it decided to concentrate on a nuclear fleet.
Buying new subs would have cost $3 billion to $5 billion, and the Canadian navy figures it got a bargain by paying about $900 million.
"It's certainly more than my mortgage but a pittance compared to the cost of many defence resources," Capt. McFadden said. "We got them at an exceptional price."
The subs ran about three years behind schedule because of a series of technical glitches.
When the British brought them out of storage, they found cracks in some key valves. Repairs and tests to certify them safe to dive took longer than expected, with delivery of a remaining sub, still in England, expected next month.
All this delayed the process of installing Canadian equipment in the submarines, which usually last for about 30 years, he said.
"The capability that is going to be delivered will be delivered at a bargain-basement price compared to anybody else's ability to deliver," Capt. McFadden said.
Although the role of submarines has shifted since the Cold War, they will still have an important military presence, Capt. McFadden said.
"But every bit as important, Sept. 11 came along and our focus shifted to Apollo, to sending task forces to the Arabian Gulf," he said.
Cmdr. Dermot Mulholland said submarines, which the country has operated since 1914, are essential to keeping Canada safe.
"We just keep proving it over and over again," he said. "It adds a third dimension to our navy, which is essential for a medium-power navy like ours. "
HMCS Windsor carries a maximum of 59 people. Its top speed while submerged is just over 37 kilometres per hour, and it can dive to 200 metres.
Its diesel generators are used to charge the two main batteries, and it is usually quieter than a nuclear submarine, Capt. McFadden said.
Why would they need torpedoes? It's not like Canada has the guts to fight any more.
Overstating their position just a bit.
You can't make this stuff up.
Kamikazi Submarine.
Did they really have to spend $900 million for a vessel that needs a crew of 59 to conduct "domestic operational patrols"? Couldn't they have built a fleet of coast guard cutters for that?
Kinda like the British police - stop or I shall be forced to say stop again.
You certainly have that right. A pitiful show !!
I represented CincPacFlt at a major joint USN/Canadian Forces War Game in 1972 at Navase Esquimalt, Victoria, BC.
The base was in reasonable shape; and the Canadians were pproud of their modest, but highly professional contribution to NATO. Such as it was.
I returned to the base in1998 during a trip to Victoria -- to essentially re-visit an old stomping ground. I was embarrassed to have my wife see the pathetic condition the base was in: Broken windows with tape on them; lawns uncut and paint peeling grossly on many of the buildings. It truly looked like a third-world facility -- like something I might see in Yemen or Pakistan.
The sub is a joke; and it is hard for me to reconcile the expenditure of even 1M for a piece of junk that was destined for the Tiawanese scrap-metal market.
And, to retrofit this unit is ludicrous. The Canadian Forces brass are in a state of collective denial. Shame!!
Does it have a deck gun? I doubt it but I had to ask. I know many World War II subs had them, I think the Gato Class had a 4 or 5 inch gun to deal with limited threats when it surfaces. Then again if you do that, you'll expose yourself anyhoo, but still, what's the point of going out unarmed, call for help on the radio is the only thing they can do. B-P Well, if FrankenKerry wins, this is our future.
It does come complete with a box of spitball shooters, but you have bring your own spit.
You just BEAT me to the SPIT BALLS comment!
In honor of Senator Zell, lets have a duel!
Hehehe
They use 'em on the Great Lakes to help keep the shipping channels free of ice in the winter.
Oh heck, they can surface in a matter of seconds, and the crew can leap out on deck, present their John Kerry spit ball launchers, and subdue the enemy.
If I recall, this was the dented used sub they bought from the UK.
Don't laugh at Canada though. This is what will happen to the US navy if John Kerry gets in. This is what liberals do to a country.
The Candadian Military had a Vasectomy done on itself about a decade ago. It has been shooting blanks ever since.
Can it come back up?
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAA
I live in Victoria. I see the Esquimalt base every day. I have followed the whole sub story for over 20 years. Yup, we've been dickering around with the new sub issue for that long. And I am horrified to discover that my government intends to use these machines to SPY ON ITS CITIZENS. That is clearly what in means to say that the subs are in service of the RCMP. That is the Canadian equivalent of the FBI. Would you be happy to know that the FBI has commandeered a Trident Sub to monitor the water off the shores of, say, Maine???? I am ashamed to be a Canadian.
They are British Upholder-class and there's no deck gun on the Upholder class. I suppose in theory the Canadians could add one, but it would be pretty pointless.
As to what the point of going out unarmed is - actually there is a point. These subs are excellent for certain forms of surveillance operations, which don't require any weaponry. You can still do a lot of good work without the weapons.
I'm not saying the subs shouldn't be armed, by any means - they certainly should be. But they can do decent work without them.
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