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Analysis of ARG poll (9/22/04)
www.americanresearchgroup.com ^ | 9/22/04 | ironmike4242

Posted on 09/22/2004 9:32:46 AM PDT by ironmike4242

There was a bit of grumbling over ARG's sampling techniques. They seem to have oversampled women quite a bit in this poll. So I went through their numbers and re-did a few key states to see how a normal gender distribution might affect their results.

I found that there is a slight difference when you apply a reasonable gender distribution of 51% Women, 49% Men. They were using 55% women, 45% men in several of their states!

Here are results from a few selected states using my gender distribution (51-49) in stead of theirs. Frankly, the differences really aren't that severe.

Mississippi- ARG had Bush ahead 51.0-41.6. My gender weighting shows Bush ahead 51.4-41.1.

Ohio- ARG had Bush ahead 47.6-46.3. My weighting had Bush ahead 47.9-46.0.

Florida-ARG had Kerry ahead 46.3-45.0. I had Kerry ahead 46.0-45.5.

So you can kind of sense a pattern here. A more realistic gender weighting would make a slight difference, but wouldn't change the results in any state except for West Virginia and Wisconsin. ARG had both states tied, but I had Bush up in WV 45.9%-45.0%. In WI ARG rounded it off from Kerry up 46.2-45.7 to 46% each. Fair enough. By my weighting it was "more tied" with Kerry up 45.6-45.5.

This still doesn't validate the ARG poll completely. My numbers didn't take into account any party registration data, which looked skewed in a few states. But fair is fair. I was complaining earlier that ARG's data was "bizarre" and I was wrong. Mea Culpa. It could have been more accurate than it was, but the gender issue alone wouldn't have changed anything. Also keep in mind that without access to their raw numbers it's not possible for me to do a real statistical analysis. I had to rough through it as best I could.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: arg; poll
Just want to throw it out there.
1 posted on 09/22/2004 9:32:47 AM PDT by ironmike4242
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To: ironmike4242

ARG!-charlie brown

-ping to read later


2 posted on 09/22/2004 9:33:58 AM PDT by escapefromboston
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To: ironmike4242

bump


3 posted on 09/22/2004 9:36:08 AM PDT by aloysius89 (Kerry lives in kuckuckwolkensheim. And so does Dan Rather.)
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To: ironmike4242
Do you happen to know if this is a poll that asks the "issues" question first and THEN asks the presidential preference question last?

This seems to be a tactic of the more left-leaning polls. Regardless, I don't believe it. I think it's about 2% low for Bush (meaning a 4% spread).

4 posted on 09/22/2004 9:36:33 AM PDT by LS
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To: ironmike4242

It is likely that Kerry IS GOING to close the gap. Those who put out the "news" will see to that. Rathergate isn't going to stop the media from pushing their side. Quite frankly, I am amazed that any Republican could ever get elected to a national office... So the race is probably going to tighten up folks, IMO. There is just too much left-wing hysteria out there to NOT convince alot of those "swing" voters, who by definition are pretty gullible folks anyway..


5 posted on 09/22/2004 9:37:03 AM PDT by Paradox (Occam was probably right.)
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To: ironmike4242

I think they're oversampling people who will vote for Kerry.


6 posted on 09/22/2004 9:37:27 AM PDT by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: ironmike4242

Its not just the gender gap. Take a look at the voter registration.

Also, I wonder if this is just registered or likely voters.

More thoughts to ponder.


7 posted on 09/22/2004 9:38:27 AM PDT by BoBToMatoE
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To: ironmike4242

The bottom line, though, my friend is that the ARG poll is to the left of most other polls. Bush is up by 8 points in the Mason-Dixon poll and 11 points in Univ. of Cinci. but just up 2 in this poll. Generally, this year ARG has found Kerry up nationally and in Florida while others showed the race more in the Prez's favor and they've generally given him awful job approval numbers, the lowest of almost any poll - including Zogby. Just looking at their samples isn't good enough. Something's not right with the ARG data and it's just that simple.

Why does Quinnipiac have the race even and SUSA have Bush up by 4 in NJ while ARG shows Kerry up by 8? Why does ARG have Kerry up in the double-digits in Maryland while SUSA shows it even? Why is Bush up by just 9 in MS? Some of the polls look ok, but some look downright wrong. I believe what I have believed all along: ARG is skewed to the Democrats, whether or not it shows up in their state-to-state data.


8 posted on 09/22/2004 9:39:51 AM PDT by No Dems 2004
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To: ironmike4242

You are missing the point. In virtually every case the state poll released today by ARG is 5 points better for Bush than same poll a month or two earlier. So these polls confirm what others have, that eveerything else being equal, there has been a 5-10 point shift to Bush in the last month.


9 posted on 09/22/2004 9:40:16 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds, a pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: BoBToMatoE

Keep in mind that the media has had a Kerry love-fest the last couple days. Kerry is bound to have some good polls the next few days. We have to tighten our shoelaces and get ready because this thing is going to be nasty.


10 posted on 09/22/2004 9:41:40 AM PDT by Gustafm1000
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To: ironmike4242

ARG's poll, when you multiply out the state percentages times the popular vote from last election shows a complete dead heat nationwide.

When you use polls from other outfits like Gallup, Mason-Dixon, Strategic Vision, etc. for states surveyed by ARG (and ignoring Zogby, Rasmussen, and SurveyUSA where possible), Bush shows a 4 million vote lead.

The main problem with ARG is that their "likely voter" model appears to almost exactly mirror the actual registered voter counts, whereas it is pretty well known that more Republicans tend to turn out than Democrats.

The other conflict with other polls is they show Kerry getting more of the Democrat vote than others do.

The most suspect polls they are putting out today are Ohio, New Jersey, New York, Delaware, and Mississippi.


11 posted on 09/22/2004 10:11:56 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: No Dems 2004
Frankly I think you can dispense with polls completely. Just follow the money! Why did John Kerry pull all of his ad money out of Arkansas if, like ARG says, it's a 2 point race? Simple answer is because it's not a 2 point race. Internal polls done for Bush and Kerry paint a very diffeent picture than the public sees. Kerry pulled ads from Tennessee, Arizona, Missouri, and even the perenially-tied Colorado. Do you think he'd be doing that if he had any chance of winning there? I don't.

And look at the visits..... First Lady in New Jersey (which I think is a deft ploy, I don't think Bush is in a position to win there, but make Kerry spend the $$$$!) The Bush team has somebody in PA almost daily. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa are all getting increased ad buys from Bush, and increased visits.

Forget about the polls. forget about "Bush up 13! or "Kerry up 1." Forget about all of that stuff. Follow the money and it becomes pretty obvious where this race stands right now.

12 posted on 09/22/2004 10:18:07 AM PDT by ironmike4242
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To: ironmike4242

How did you go about reweighting the results? Were you able to obtain the polls sampling weights for each observation or did you reweight aggregate results? I don't think that the latter will give you what you think you want.


13 posted on 09/22/2004 10:20:43 AM PDT by rebel_yell2
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To: Tennessean4Bush
No, I get that point. An anlysis of the trends paint a pretty obvious picture of this race. I completely agree with you. The trend is moving towards Bush. My only point in doing this brief analysis was to show that even though their methodology seems off, correcting it wouldn't necessarily make a difference in terms who they have ahead or behind.

This poll is flawed for several reasons, but gender inequality isn't really a contributing factor.

14 posted on 09/22/2004 10:21:15 AM PDT by ironmike4242
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To: rebel_yell2
"How did you go about reweighting the results?"

Well, the ARG site gives you a breakdown for each state by percentage. So you can roughly extrapolate out their raw numbers based on gender (600 likely voters, 56% women, 51% support for Kerry=~171 votes for Kerry). So you can rework the numbers using 51% for women instead of 56% which would give you 156 votes for Kerry, and then you re-work the numbers that way.

15 posted on 09/22/2004 10:24:52 AM PDT by ironmike4242
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To: ironmike4242

Your point is well-made and well-taken.


16 posted on 09/22/2004 1:44:47 PM PDT by No Dems 2004
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To: ironmike4242

Gender makes a little difference but check out the R/D/I
mix if you can...

Some of the lowball pollsters keep re-weighting their
results to the year 2000 exit polls (I think Rasmussen,
ARG, Zogby and others)

But that ignores the 5 point shift towards the Republican
'party ID' that has happened post-9/11.

And Republicans vote in higher percentages, so make that
a 6 or 7 point shift.


17 posted on 09/22/2004 4:21:14 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: ironmike4242

IIRC ARG had Gore winning a handful of Southern states in the final days of the campaign in 2000.

I don't put a lot of credibility toward them.


18 posted on 09/22/2004 8:17:08 PM PDT by RWR8189 (Its Morning in America Again!)
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