Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Live Thread: CBS Evening News (Dan tells us why we're all wrong)
www.freerepublic.com | September 10, 2004

Posted on 09/10/2004 3:18:38 PM PDT by Howlin

Edited on 09/10/2004 4:53:58 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Have at it.

******Transcript************



'KEY CHALLENGES TO NATIONAL GUARD DOCUMENTS ANSWERED'
Fri Sep 10 2004 19:03:11 ET

The biggest challenges to the authenticity of the documents featured in the 60 MINUTES segment on President Bush's Texas National Guard service are answered in a report to be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS tonight (6:30-7:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. The report states that the type style, typewriter and the superscript function critics claim did not exist at the time the memos from President Bush's former Texas National Guard commander were typed were indeed all available. In fact, similar raised "th" superscripts have been found on other National Guard documents the White House has released from the president's file.

Furthermore, Marcel Mately, the document and handwriting expert used to authenticate the documents for CBS News and 60 MINUTES, asserts that copies of the memos critics are examining have been degraded by reproduction though photocopying, computer scanning and faxing and are not reliable representations of the memos.

A transcript is attached:

BUSH DOCUMENTS

EVENING NEWS WITH DAN RATHER

9-10-04

Rather Lead In: There were attacks today on the CBS News "60 Minutes" report this week raising new questions about President Bush's Vietnam-era time in the Texas Air National Guard. The questions raised by our report include:

--Did a wealthy Texas oilman-friend of the Bush family use his influence with the speaker of the Texas House of Representatives .. to get George W. Bush a coveted slot in the National Guard .. keeping him out of the draft and any probable service IN Vietnam?

--Did Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his commanding officer?

--Was Lieutenant. Bush suspended for failure to perform up to standards?

--Did Lieutenant Bush ever take a physical he was required and ordered to take? If not, why not?

--And did Lieutenant Bush, in fact, complete his commitment to the Guard?

These questions grew out of new witnesses and new evidence -- including documents written by Lieutenant Bush's squadron commander.

Today, on the internet and elsewhere, some people -- including many who are partisan political operatives -- concentrated not on the key questions the overall story raised but on the documents that were part of the support of the story.

They alleged the documents are FAKE.

Rather: MANY OF THOSE RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CBS DOCUMENTS HAVE FOCUSED ON SOMETHING CALLED SUPERSCRIPT... A KEY THAT AUTOMATICALLY TYPES A RAISED "TH". CRITICS CLAIM TYPEWRITERS DIDN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY IN THE 70S. BUT SOME MODELS DID....IN FACT, OTHER BUSH MILITARY RECORDS ALREADY OFFICIALLY RELEASED BY THE WHITE HOUSE ITSELF SHOW THE SAME SUPERSCRIPT.

HERE'S ONE..... FROM 1968.

SOME ANALYSTS OUTSIDE CBS SAY THEY BELIEVE THE TYPEFACE ON THESE MEMOS IS NEW TIMES ROMAN.... WHICH THEY CLAIM WAS NOT AVAILABLE IN THE 1970S.

BUT THE OWNER OF THE COMPANY THAT DISTRIBUTES THIS TYPING STYLE.... SAYS IT HAS BEEN AVAILABE SINCE 1931. DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY ANALYZED THE DOCUMENTS FOR CBS NEWS.

HE SAYS HE BELIEVES THEY ARE REAL...BUT IS CONCERNED ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING EXAMINED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE QUESTIONING THE DOCUMENTS....BECAUSE DETIORATION OCCURS EACH TIME A DOCUMENT IS REPRODUCED.....AND THE DOCUMENTS BEING ANALYZED OUTSIDE OF CBS HAVEBEEN PHOTOCOPIED, FAXED, SCANNED AND DOWNLOADED.... AND ARE FAR REMOVED FROM THE DOCUMENTS CBS STARTED WITH WHICH WERE ALSO PHOTOCOPIES.

DOCUMENT AND HANDWRITING EXAMINER MARCEL MATLEY DID THIS INTERVIEW WITH US PRIOR TO THE 60 MINUTES BROADCAST.

HE LOOKED AT THE DOCUMENTS AND THE SIGNATURES OF COLONEL JERRY KILLIAN.... COMPARING KNOWN DOCUMENTS WITH THE COLONEL'S SIGNATURE ON THE NEWSLY DISCOVERED ONES.

Matley: "WE LOOK BASICALLY AT WHAT'S CALLED SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT FEATURES TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S THE SAME PERSON OR NOT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENTIFYING THEM.

I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR AVAILABLE HANDWRITING EVIDENCE, YES. THIS IS THE SAME PERSON."

Rather: MATLEY FINDS THE SIGNAT'URES TO BE SOME OF THE MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE...WE TALKED TO HIM AGAIN TODAY BY SATELLITE.

Matley "SINCE IT IS REPRESENTED THAT SOME OF THEM ARE DEFINITELY HIS... THEN WE CAN CONCLUDE THEY ARE HIS SIGNATURES."

Rather: "ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT QUESTIONS COME ABOUT THESE. WE'RE NOT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU'RE SURPRISED."

Matley: "I KNEW GOING IN THAT THIS WAS DYNAMITE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER AND I KNEW THAT POTENTIALLY IT WAS FAR MORE POTENTIAL DAMAGE TO ME PROFESSIONALLY THAN BENEFIT ME. AND I KNEW THAT. BUT WE SEEK THE TRUTH. THAT'S WHAT WE DO. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT YOURSELF OUT. TO SEEK THE TRUTH AND TAKE WHAT COMES FROM IT."

Rather: ROBERT STRONG WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER FOR THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD DURING THE VIETNAM YEARS. HE KNEW COL. JERRY KILLIAN, THE MAN CREDITED WITH WRITING THE DOCUMENTS.... AND PAPER WORK... LIKE THESE DOCUMENTS...WAS HIS SPECIALTY. HE IS STANDING BY HIS JUDGEMENT THAT THE DOCUMENTS ARE REAL.

Rather: "WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THESE DOCUMENTS, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT THESE ARE GENUINE?"

Strong: "WELL,, THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE WAY BUSINESS WAS DONE AT THAT TIME. THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MAN THAT I REMEMBER JERRY KILLIAN BEING. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT'S DISCORDANT WITH WHAT WERE THE TIMES, WHAT WERE THE SITUATION OR WHAT WERE THE PEOPLE INVOLVED."

Rather: STRONG SAYS THE HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE GUARD AT THE TIME... WAS PERFECTLY REPRESENTED IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS

Strong: "IT VERGED ON OUTRIGHT CORRUPTION IN TERMS OF THE FAVORS THAT WERE DONE, THE POWER THAT WAS TRADED. AND IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE. FROM A MORAL AND ETHICAL STANDPOINT. IT WAS UNCONSCIONABLE."

Rather: IT IS THE INFORMATION IN THE NEW DOCUMENTS THAT IS MOST COMPELLING FOR PEOPLE FAMILIAR WITH PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORD IN THE NATIONAL GUARD. AUTHOR JIM MORE HAS WRITTEN TWO BOOKS ON THE SUBJECT.

Rather: "YOU'VE STUDIED PRESIDENT BUSH'S RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS.. ARE THESE DOCUMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORD AS YOU KNOW IT?"

Moore: "THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE RECORDS AS I KNOW IT."

Rather: "PUT IT IN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE FOR US ... THE STORY AND WHAT WE CALL THE COUNTERATTACK ON THE STORY. WHERE ARE WE RIGHT NOW?

Moore "I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS SOME INCRIMINATING DOCUMENTS HAVE COME OUT. THE WHITE HOUSE, YOU SHOULD REMEMBER, HAS NOT DISCREDITED THE DOCUMENTS. THEY'RE RELYING ON THE BLOGOSPHERE AND OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THAT. BECAUSE THE WHITE HOUSE PROBABLY KNOWS THESE DOCUMENTS ARE IN FACT REAL."

Rather Tag: The "60 Minutes" report was based NOT solely on the recovered documents .. but on a preponderance of evidence .. including documents that were provided by un-impeachable sources .. and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard. If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it.

So far, there is none.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: District of Columbia; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 2004electionbias; brithume; bush; cbs; cbslies; dannyrather; danratherbiased; disgraceful; dnctalkingpoints; downwiththeship; foxnews; fredbarnes; frequency; juanwilliams; jumpedtheshark; killian; lyingliar; mediabias; memos; outofworkhack; ratherbiased; resignnow; tang
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,081-1,1001,101-1,1201,121-1,140 ... 1,301-1,313 next last
To: Howlin

NOTICE How he leads the story by repeating all the charges against Bush?


1,101 posted on 09/10/2004 5:50:52 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brilliant

Where are the originals? They have to be someplace.

Why would a reputable news agency run with a document that existed only in photocopies? How could they have any assurance of authenticity?


1,102 posted on 09/10/2004 5:51:22 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proudly Supporting BUSH/CHENEY 2004!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 825 | View Replies]

To: mabelkitty
Get your 46 Points out in the blogosphere. You are the only person I know of who's tried to put together a comprehensive list of all forgery questions about these documents. Others have tried. I've read theirs. Your's is better.

Congressman Billybob

1,103 posted on 09/10/2004 5:51:58 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Visit: www.ArmorforCongress.com please.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 841 | View Replies]

To: NavyCanDo

***NOTICE How he leads the story by repeating all the charges against Bush? ***

That was NIGHTLINE's angle also ....

I'm
MAD
as
ZELL!!!!!


1,104 posted on 09/10/2004 5:52:47 PM PDT by BlueOx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1101 | View Replies]

To: Mike Fieschko
That's also incorrect. The last draft year was 1972. A lottery was held in 1972 for those to be called in 1973, but none were. The last year of 1A classification was 1973. The first year of 1H classification was 1974. Take a look here.
1,105 posted on 09/10/2004 5:53:01 PM PDT by FredZarguna (I'm FredZarguna, Founder and President of Fathers United to Counter Kerry.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1092 | View Replies]

To: Sonar5

That first "th" looks like it was "written" in over white-out. It's nothing like the others...anyone concurr?
I mean why would "th" be different in the same use as a suffix in two places of the same document?


1,106 posted on 09/10/2004 5:53:03 PM PDT by WoodstockCat (DNC and John Kerry: Forgers R' Us)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 988 | View Replies]

To: mabelkitty

bttt


1,107 posted on 09/10/2004 5:53:18 PM PDT by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1054 | View Replies]

To: Calpernia
Well, there's no doubt at all that various Soros-funded gangs are involved in Indymedia and there is quite a bit of overlap in personnel between the lamestream and the radical media. The establishment's showpiece in the latter category is Mother Jones, which has been a veritable training ground for lamestream "journalists" for many years.
1,108 posted on 09/10/2004 5:53:28 PM PDT by atomic conspiracy (This message prepared with MS-CBS Word 72 software)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1020 | View Replies]

To: Howlin

Drudge headline now acknowledging that the proper type of expert was not used by CBS. Quote:

"CBS Used Handwriting Not Typewriter Analyst..."

Drudge's own words, not a headline quoted from an outside source. Links to the CBS transcript at this time.


1,109 posted on 09/10/2004 5:54:02 PM PDT by Matt32
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: saminfl
Here is an excerpt regarding kerning from Hugh Hewitts blog.

"The Killian memos could not have been typed on an IBM Executive typewriter with "proportional spacing" or any other typewriter using similar technology. According to product descriptions on the web, the IBM Executive typewriter supports only four different character widths. In contrast, modern proportional spacing involves a far more sophisticated type-setting algorithm. Every type font in Word (or any other modern word processing system) has a custom width for every character. Moreover, the spacing between individual pairs of characters is modified by a process called "kerning" that compensates for the fact that letters have varying shapes that affect our perception of proper spacing. To achieve an aesthetically pleasing result, the type-setting process must take into account the relationship between adjacent character shapes.

"For example, the letter "T" followed by the letter "o" looks badly spaced if the "o" is not tucked under the overhang provided by the top of the "T". On the other hand, no such adjustment is appropriate if the letter "T" is followed by the letter "H". In the Killian documents, you can clearly see the effects of kerning in pairs of letters such as "fo" and "fe". I am amazed that Dan Rather and his associates at CBS are blind to the overwhelming evidence that these documents are blatant forgeries.

"Sincerely,

"Robert "Corky" Cartwright Rice University"

1,110 posted on 09/10/2004 5:54:06 PM PDT by shrinkermd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 920 | View Replies]

To: daylate-dollarshort

bttt


1,111 posted on 09/10/2004 5:54:11 PM PDT by nopardons
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1058 | View Replies]

To: Dog
UPDATE: hmmm This is interesting... Seems Matley vouched for the authenticity of the Vince Foster suicide note.

HELLO .. of all experts to call in .. they pick this guy??

Why?

1,112 posted on 09/10/2004 5:54:37 PM PDT by Mo1 (FR NEWS ALERT .... John Kerry over dosed on Botox and thinks he's Bob KerrEy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 945 | View Replies]

To: bvw
"Are you wearing pajamas, sir?"

Nope, getting ready to go out with the much younger wife that I have and party. It's Friday night.

Sunday, I just might mozy on down to DC to support the Viet Nam Vets. (I'm not a vet but support them).

1,113 posted on 09/10/2004 5:55:23 PM PDT by AGreatPer (Go Swifties)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1094 | View Replies]

To: bvw

I prefer nightgown and robe personally....;)


1,114 posted on 09/10/2004 5:55:55 PM PDT by MEG33 (John Kerry has been AWOL for two decades on issues of National Security)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1086 | View Replies]

To: Congressman Billybob

Who do I send it to? Powerline? They are the only ones I know of.


1,115 posted on 09/10/2004 5:56:00 PM PDT by mabelkitty (Watch for a CBS employee in a trench coat going by DeepWord.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1103 | View Replies]

To: Howlin

Oh Danny Boy, the Feds the Feds are calling..........


1,116 posted on 09/10/2004 5:56:00 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Shermy

The two superscripts exhibited by Rather were the same only in the same sense as saying that an Eagle and a Hummingbird are the same in that they are both birds!


1,117 posted on 09/10/2004 5:56:13 PM PDT by RipSawyer ("Embed" Michael Moore with the 82nd airborne.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 466 | View Replies]

To: snooker
easily faked 'scan and paste' signature

If the document doesn't exist in an original, how can Rather say ANYTHING about the signature?

You are 100% correct. Easily faked 'scan and paste.'

In our era with all the graphics packages available -- can it be photoshopped onto a word processor page so that no "paste" lines appear? Yep, an eraser tool on my photoshop will do that.

1,118 posted on 09/10/2004 5:56:38 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proudly Supporting BUSH/CHENEY 2004!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 837 | View Replies]

To: AGreatPer

You are saying it is not your habit to sit around your living room in pajamas banging at your keyboard? Do I have that correctly?


1,119 posted on 09/10/2004 5:56:53 PM PDT by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1113 | View Replies]

To: Matt32

"Drudge headline now acknowledging that the proper type of expert was not used by CBS."

Didn't I hear Tony Snow or someone say the Whitehouse is having experts from the military and somewhere else checkout the document?

I would assume this work is pretty well done since they've had it for a while.


1,120 posted on 09/10/2004 5:57:02 PM PDT by Loyal Buckeye ((Kerry is a flake))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1109 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,081-1,1001,101-1,1201,121-1,140 ... 1,301-1,313 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson