THE "New" CBS BUSH DOCUMENTS: Let's do some investigating

www.freerepublic.com | September 9, 2004

[Howlin]

These are the NEW documents "discovered" by CBS with conjunction with their Ben Barnes expose/confessional tonight regarding George Bush's National Guard service.

They've gotten some interesting comments on the Live Thread, so I thought I'd give them their own thread so you people out there with the knowledge can dissect them for their accuracy/truth/existence.

[cyncooper]

Would those of you who have posted opinions concerning these documents on other threads, please post them here, too, so we can keep them all together?

Just seeing this thread this morning. I'll cut and paste my side by side of the CBS article representation of memo #2 and the actual memo itself:

CBS:

Killian called Lt. Bush "an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot" who "performed in an outstanding manner." That is part of the public record.

But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. Among them, a never-before-seen memorandum from May 1972, where Killian writes that Lt. Bush called him to talk about "how he can get out of coming to drill from now through November."

Lt. Bush tells his commander "he is working on a campaign in Alabama…. and may not have time to take his physical." Killian adds that he thinks Lt. Bush has gone over his head, and is "talking to someone upstairs."

Col. Killian died in 1984. 60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic.

~snip~

Now, the actual memo:

May 19, 1972

Memo to File

Subject: Discussion with Bush; 1st Lt. Bush

1. Phone call from Bush. Discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November. I told him he could do ET for three months or transfer. Says he wants to transfer to Alabama to any unit he can get in to. Says that he is working on another campaign for his dad.

2. Physical. We talked about him getting his flight physical situation fixed before his date. Says that he will do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status. He has this campaign to do and other things that will follow and may not have the time. I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment. He's been working with staff to come up with options and identified a unit that may accept him. I told him I had to have written acceptance before he would be transferred, but I think he's talking to someone upstairs.

END OF MEMO

[Robert A Cook PE]

"Actually, dot-matrix and daisy wheel printers can have variations in character weights given that each letter is manually smashed onto the page through an ink and hammer method, just as a typewriter does.

Uh, one problem. Those gadgets weren't invented yet.

This is early 70's. Computers didn't even have MONITORS yet. You didn't have KEYBOARDS yet.

[Wild_Bill_8881]

yep, those flying training records are kind of an odd find at this late date, probably kept in a totally separate place in the military bureaucracy

Sure wish the press was this hot on digging into Senator Kerry's records, sure would answer a lot of questions old skerry sure doesn't seam to want to answer

fair and balanced and impartial press my a**

[Buckhead]

The Pete Yost story has this passage, which indicates the White House DID NOT release the memos CBS obtained:

---

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was "for record" and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was "for 1st Lt. George W. Bush."

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

---

See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1210909/posts

The CBS story doesn't say how they got the documents, except to claim they were from Killian's personal files. That is to say, they didn't get them from the White House. Here's the relevant quote from CBS:

"But 60 Minutes has obtained a number of documents we are told were taken from Col. Killian's personal file. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/08/60II/main641984.shtml

I think we can put that particular problem to bed.

[MizSterious]

Seems to me that we need to change the subject--wish one of our 527's would release an ad demanding Kerry release his records--a completely outrageous ad that would infuriate the left to such a degree that they'd froth at the mouth at press conferences discussing it. (The more it's discussed, the more it will be brought to everyone's attention that Kerry has never released HIS records!)

[MizSterious]

Thank you, Buckhead. This story is very confusing--perhaps because there are so many 'Rat lies intertwined.

[Carolinamom]

IF (and it's a big'un) we ever see Kerry's complete records, I KNOW freepers will be on them like flies on honey analyzing them more thoroughly than the media know-nothings.

[marway]

I heard on Fox this morning too, that the memos had been released by the WH. Wouldn't this give them some validity?

[Buckhead]

Actually, whether these documents are forgeries is extremely important. It is another nail in the coffin of the credibility of the MSM. They are all running with this story like it's a brand new toy on Christmas morning even though it's a rather obvious fraud. The self-destruction of their credibility, which has been ongoing for years, and the rise of alternate media, are very significant historical developments, and are major reasons why Bush has not been hurt all that badly by their shrill and desparate campaign against him.

We should all be gathering recipes for crow, and e-mailing them to these nitwits, because they are going to have to eat a whole lot of it.

[GOPJ]

yawn...

[PhatHead]

Another giveaway on this is the superscript "th" on 111th which appears in paragraph 2 of the "order" memo. Typewriters don't do reduced font superscripts. And if they did, why not do it in the header, too.

[MizSterious]

Crow? I wish! Unfortunately, we already know how the media will handle proof that they're either mistaken or downright lying. Remember the "Republicans booed when President Bush offered get well wishes to Bill Clinton" story? Have any of the media publicly apologized? (Much less eaten crow!)

[Buckhead]

If they had been released by the White House that would lend them some credibility, but I don't think they have. I think that is merely erroneous reporting. As demonstrated above, the White House has released personal flight logs, but not these bogus Killian memos - CBS got those from an unnamed source who supposedly told CBS they got them from Killian's personal files - 20 years after his death - the Yost AP story notes the fact that the Killian documents were not in the official records even though they purport to be "for the record." They were not in the official record because they are forgeries created after the fact by Kerry partisans. The font, the superscript, the signatures, the lack of any circumstantial indicators of authenticity, the myterious and unverifiable provenance, the contradiction by verified official documents, the timing, all of these things and more point to forgery.

[bobsatwork]

.....In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing, and typewriters used monospaced fonts......Not so fast! IBM Selectronic typewriters used proportional fonts. If memory serves, a period used a single unit of space, and a capital M or W used five.

[aruanan]

Hmmm, these documents versus Kerry's publicly admitting to be a war criminal. I thought these liberal guys were so into Amnesty International, etc., that they'd jump at a chance to bust a real U.S. war criminal.

[leftcoaster]

Haven't had time to read all thru this thread, so sorry if this was already mentioned:

The memos are not written on any kind of pre-printed letterhead. They appear to have been printed on plain paper; thus the need to type in the sender's address info at the very top.

But in the May 4 memo, the "111th" on the letterhead has the "th" in the same font as the rest of text, while the "111th" within item number 2 has the "th" as superscript.

The August 18 memo to file also has a superscript on "187th".

All other numerical contractions, such as the "1st" in reference to Lt. Bush's rank, are typed as regular text (not superscript).

I doubt that even high quality typewriters in the hands of our armed forces in the early '70's printed in superscript. But even if they could, why the inconsistencies within the same document, utilizing superscript on some and not others? Especially in the top letterhead address, where you would make an effort to use all the bells and whistles available?

I would like to see similar TX ANG documents from this time frame from that office to see if they were of similar print style.

[Cai Della]

---

[pepsionice]

A comment on the IBM Executive typewriter...this was a common choice for most AF squadron orderly rooms and treasured asset by all admin folks at the time. No commander ever typed a single document out (as alot of them do today)...they always had the trusted "radar" type admin guy who did all of the admin work for them. I'm kinda surprised that admin folks haven't stood up who were assigned to the units in question.

[Robert A Cook PE]

"1. Phone call from Bush. Discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November. I told him he could do ET for three months or transfer. Says he wants to transfer to Alabama to any unit he can get in to. Says that he is working on another campaign for his dad.

Just noticed this:

Have you ever seen a senior-military officer, in writing about about a junior military officer (in what is therorectically a private, CYA perfectly-typed memo deliberately called a "memo"?) ...

Have you ever seen "Bush" used directly without the rank designation on paper like this? (That was considered an insult actually, unless used in the field talking to peer-to-peer!)

Also, would a CYA-writing, perfectly typing, anal-retentitive, keeping records & writing letters to himself type of military officer used the term "his dad" on paper?

[PhatHead]

Not sure about the fonts - I served in the late eighties, and all my stuff was done with typewriter - nothing like these. Hard to believe a lowly Texas ANG unit would get the state of the art word-rpocessing in 1972 that my forward-deployed tank battalion didn't have in 1988...