Posted on 09/08/2004 7:44:19 AM PDT by Tacis
It is indeed unfortunate that a man who would be President so distrusts the American public and his own background that he hides material information in his military records in the hope of hornswoggling the electorate, of tricking us into believing he is one thing when, in fact, he may be another.
Kerry is asking American voters to assess his fitness to serve as CinC based on his brief record in-country. But, he refuses to release his total military record, about 12 years, so that we can judge the totality for ourselves. It is not that he is asking us to weigh the pieces of his record differently, he is saying, “You can’t see it, you have no right to see, you have to take my word!” Always remember that Benedict Arnold had a wonderful combat record and reputation as a patriot until he turned traitor and tried to betray the cause by turning West Point over to the British enemy.
In an earlier posting, I suggested that Kerry had a major blemish on his military record and had applied for and been granted a pardon under President Jimmy Carter’s January 21,1977, Proclamation 4483 which granted “... a full, complete and unconditional pardon to: (1) all persons who may have committed any offense between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder; and (2) all persons heretofore convicted, irrespective of the date of conviction, of any offense committed between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act, or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder, restoring to them full political, civil and other rights.”
And that, further, the Office of the Pardon Attorney, United States Department of Justice, as a matter of public record, might be able to prove or disprove this thesis. This hypothesis remains open.
Note again, that Kerry’s refusal to be honest with America, his refusal to trust the judgment of Americans to evaluate his total military record and draw our own conclusions, forces us to guess what is in his past, a stain so terrible that he chooses to lie to America rather than reveal the truth. And, what he hides and why, weighs in determining today if he is fit to be President or fit to be Senator.
Maybe Kerry wasn’t actually court martialed. There is another possibility, a variant. It is that Kerry was issued a bad conduct discharge, was booted out of the USNR and was unable to reverse the BCD until Carter took over in January, 1977. Kerry has remorselessly bombarded us with repetitions of his 4.5 months of Viet Namese heroism as proof that he is fit to be CinC. Even former President Clinton, from what might have been his death bed, is said to have warned Kerry to move on, presumably, before Kerry is forced to tell the truth.
A subset of the bad conduct discharge would be a bad “spin” code on an honorable discharge. It, too, would be a blemish that would have to be kept hidden. A Google search on “bad paper discharge” and “special program number” suggest a couple of possibilities about why Kerry is lying while talking only about his time in-country.
The Attorney General of the State of Illinois posts, “Defending Your Rights, Veterans Rights: The Legal Rights of Illinois Veterans” (http://www.ag.state.il.us/rights/vetsrights/ch01.html) that is especially informative. According to this site, there are basically two types of discharge, first, “other than dishonorable,” I.e., “Honorable Discharge, General Discharge (under honorable conditions), Hardship Discharge and Medical Discharge “ and, second, "Bad Paper" discharges i.e., Dishonorable, Bad Conduct, Undesirable, and "other than honorable".
According to another site (http://www.socialistworker.org/2003 1/437/437_05_LaborAgainstWar.shtml), “In the Vietnam era alone, 375,000 men and women received a variety of discharges, all coded less than honorable. There was no hearing, no trial, no review. They were just given this bad paper and turned loose on the street.”
Even those separated under “other than dishonorable” conditions could carry a bad mark. At some point, perhaps as early as 1953, the Department of Defense began to code the DD 214 of a terminating serviceman with a number that was designed to let the military recruiting officer handling the individual’s request to re-up, to immediately be able to characterize his past tour of duty.
There are some surprisingly rich sites that explain the intricacies of a DD 214 . One such site is: "http://www.dallassecurity.com/Published_Articles/Proof_of_Military_Service/proof_of_military_service.html." It describes the Special Program Number (SPN) or “spin” number used on DD 214s that could brand the vet for life.
One source (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt comments.cgi?entry_id=3280) claims “ but there was no official ‘recall’ or notice to vets, [but it is] estimated about 200,000 vets had honorable discharges with bad spin numbers, and who did not know it.” My analysis did not determine whether this 200,000 was in addition to the 375,000 veterans mentioned above or inclusive.
Perhaps, the most extraordinary finding in this brief research project was in a site that is a dictionary of military slang and terms from the Viet Nam era, http://www.twobittraining.com/CAP/glossary.htm. That site defines “bad conduct discharge” as follows, “ Also known as a BCD, "bad paper" or a Boston College Degree. This is what the Marine Corps did to guys convicted at court martials for mid-level felonies like theft, fraud, drug abuse and assault. It's one step below a dishonorable discharge. Boston College is, of course, where Kerry went to law school, 1973 -76 and from which he got a Boston College diploma.
We know Kerry was issued a DD 214 in March 1970 even though his military obligation wasn’t supposed to end until March, 1972, a total of about 6 years (there is an issue of whether his agreed upon total obligation was 6 or 6.5 years). It may be they “turned him loose.” We also know that Kerry received a discharge in March, 1978 but have not seen any associated DD 214.
Here’s my hypothesis. Kerry did not turn bad without reason. Just as Benedict Arnold turned bad when he did not receive the recognition he felt he deserved, so to, I believe, did Kerry respond to some slight, real or imagined by the Navy. His true record will show, I believe, some action/inaction by the Navy (passed over for promotion/assignment?), then his request to be released to run for Congress, the 3/70 DD 214 and transfer to the inactive reserve, and then, in 1970, 1971 or 1972, a bad conduct discharge (or “Big Chicken Dinner” as one respondent described it). Maybe, it was a bad “spin” number, but then that would not explain the seemingly strange dates and 12 year period of military service.
There would also be a DD 214 associated with a bad conduct discharge, one we have not yet seen. Note that Nixon was in the White House and he and his staff might not have appreciated Kerry’s anti-war efforts. The ultra liberal media would have us believe that Nixon could be vindictive. This scenario might also suggest that, since Kerry had been discharged, he was no longer an officer in the US Naval Reserve when he went to Paris to collaborate with representatives of the Viet Cong. It may still have been treason in the broad sense, but not in the technical sense because he may not have held a military commission.
Whether Kerry’s BCD was covered by Carter’s blanket pardon or not, Kerry’s pull with Kennedy and the democrat administration that took office in January, 1977 ought to have been enough to get him pardoned under some catch-all provision. There should be records. If my thesis is correct, Kerry’s military file should also include a completed Form DD 149, “Application for Correction of Military Record Under the Provisions of Title 10, U. S. Code, Section 1552” and Form DD 293, “Application for the Review of Discharge or Dismissal From the Armed Forces of the United States.” The submission of Form DD 293 requires, as a precondition, that applicants “obtain copies their military personnel records by submitting a Standard Form (SF) 180, Request Pertaining to Military Records...” Note that these specific forms found on today’s internet were not the same versions that would have been used in the period 1970 through 1978.
Thus, if the above be correct, we can hypothesize some of the documents that would have to be in Kerry’s official military record (and in his own personal files) but continue to be hidden from the eyes of objective observers, and their approximate dates. There would be a bad conduct discharge letter (1970-71) and related DD 214 (and, perhaps, some documents related to the termination process, but no Certificate of Honorable Discharge), a DD 293 (1977), a SF-180 (prior to the date of the DD 293), a DD 149 (maybe, 1977) and a transmittal letter responding to the SF-180 and correspondence related to the resolution of the DD 149 and 293 applications. There would have to be a DD 214 associated with the Navy letter of Feb 18 1978 honorably discharging Kerry from the Navy and a copy of the Honorable Discharge Certificate, mentioned in the Navy letter but not included on Kerry’s site. There should also be a request from Kerry for the specific documents (and only those documents) transmitted Navy National Personnel Records Center letter of 24 May 1986. There also has to be a form/request to which the Correction to DD Form 214 dated 3/12/2001 (authorizing, in part, 4 bronze stars on Kerry’s Viet Nam Service Medal) was issued as a response.
It is a crying shame and a disgrace that a man who would be President and has based a portion of his claim of qualification on his military service, refuses to allow American voters to judge that service in toto. His deception and lack of candor forces us to guess what might be in that record, a terrible stain that makes in safer for him to risk the accusations of mendacity rather than the certain damage of honesty. Sure, he could have been a spy in Paris, informing on the Viet Cong or on all his friends in the VVAW and the other anti-war folks he dealt with. But, even proof of that would give us insights into the character of the man who would be President. Kerry has the opportunity to confirm to us his bravery, service to nation and integrity. When he fails to take that opportunity, he proves himself to be a worthless (no offense, Teresa) liar. Question his patriotism? Hell, yes!! Benedict Arnold was a heroic patriot until he turned bad and became a traitor.
I am a big enough man to admit when I’m wrong. If Kerry didn’t receive a bad conduct discharge from the Navy, all he has to do is file an SF-180 and make the package available to trustworthy, honest evaluators for publication to and review by all concerned American voters. Then, a list of simple questions and his direct responses. If Kerry’s record proves he wasn’t cashiered, I’ll admit I was wrong and apologize. But, if he refuses, if his record won’t be available for review by all America, if he is as unfit today as the Navy found him to be 30 some years ago, I urge him to step down immediately and resign from both the national ticket and the Senate seat he sometime fills.
Kerry signed this peace treaty while in the Naval Researve. Carter had to pardon him.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=59#59
Not only was Kerry IN Paris. Kerry was a signer of the“People’s Peace Treaty.” A “people’s” declaration to end the war, drawnup in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from VietCong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditionsfor ending the war
The People's Peace Treaty
BETWEEN THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, SOUTH VIETNAM & NORTH VIETNAM
Be it known that the American and Vietnamese people are not enemies. The war is carried out in the names of the people of the United States and South Vietnam but without our consent. It destroys the land and people of Vietnam. It drains America of its resources, its youth and its honor.
We hereby agree to end the war on the following terms, so that both peoples can live under the joy of independence and can devote themselves to building a society based on human equality and respect for the earth. In rejecting the war we also reject all forms of racism and discrimination against people based on color, class, sex, national origin and ethnic grouping which forms the basis of the war policies, present and past, of the United States.
1. The Americans agree to immediate and total withdrawal from Vietnam, and publicly to set the date by which all U.S. military forces will be removed.
2. The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal, they will enter discussions to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam.
3. There will be an immediate case-fire between U.S. forces and those led by the Provisional Revolutionary Government of South Vietnam.
4. They will enter discussions on the procedures to guarantee the safety of all withdrawing troops.
5. The Americans pledge to end the imposition of Thieu, Ky and Khiem on the people of South Vietnam in order to insure their right to self-determination, and so that all political prisoners can be released.
6. The Vietnamese pledge to form a provisional coalition government to organize democratic elections. All parties agree to respect the results of elections in which all South Vietnamese can participate freely without the presence of any foreign troops.
7. The South Vietnamese pledge to enter discussion of procedures to guarantee the safety and political freedom of those South Vietnamese who have collaborated with the U.S. or with the U.S.-supported regime.
8. The Americans and Vietnamese agree to respect the independence, peace and neutrality of Laos and Cambodia in accord with the 1954 and 1962 Geneva conventions, and not to interfere in the internal affairs of these two countries.
9. Upon these points of agreement, we pledge to end the war and resolve all other questions in the spirit of self-determination and mutual respect for the independence and political freedom of the people of Vietnam and the United States.
By ratifying this agreement, we pledge to take whatever actions are appropriate to implement the terms of this Joint Treaty of Peace, and to insure its acceptance by the government of the United States.
South Vietnam National Student Union
South Vietnam Liberation Student Union
North Vietnam Student Union
National Student Association
Saigon, Hanoi and Paris, December 1970
Signed: Amongst others, John F. Kerry!
Adopted by New University Conference and Chicago Movement Meeting, January 8-10, 1971
Bump
On 16 April, the Chairman of the Senate Select Committee, Senator John Kerry, stated that he gave the order to destroy "extraneous copies of the documents" and that no one objected. Moreover, he stated that the issue was "moot" because the original remained in the Office of Senate Security "all along."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=187#187
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=189#189
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=190#190
Actually, in this instance, it would be libel (slander is verbal, libel written), if Kerry were not a public figure. The fact that he is means that he is subject to such charges without legal recourse. That is why Ted Kennedy can get on the floor of the Senate and accuse the President of going to war for oil. If the court-martial charge is true, then both slander and libel are wrong. And any attempted defense would be predicated on Kerry releasing his military records... something he has refused to do.
2. Dumb. Listen to the tapes of Noxon going off on Kerry. Is they ANY chance he would not have found out and brought it up if Kerry had such a blemish on his record? NO.
Yes. Plenty of chances. There are many facts about Kerry's service and actions after the war that were not known at the time. Why didn't Nixon bring up the phony Purple Hearts, or the Winter Soldier liars, or Kerry meeting with the Viet Cong, or... the list goes on and on.
3. Counterproductive. There are plenty of things to knock Kerry for that can be documented. Wasting time and bandwidth on Kerry was court martialed/ Kerry was got a bad conduct discharge fantasies doesn't just use up resources better put to good uses, it gives Kerry's supporters in the MSM the chance to dismiss ALL charges against Kerry as unfounded, because some people are making clearly unfounded charges.
I seem to remember the same arguments about the Swift Vets, and they single-handedly blew Kerry's "Reporting for Duty" BS out of the water. There is a compelling reason to ask Kerry how a 6 year service takes 10 years to complete. What happened to those missing four years. Did he re-enlist after going before the Senate and calling the US Military the Army of Ghengis Khan? Or does he have another reason. Perhaps a court-martial that was then covered by Carter's amnesty, letting Kerry re-apply for a discharge. It is a legitimate question given the issues involved. Can a CIC have a court-martial in his background? It would help explain why Kerry won't make his records public. The electorate deserves an answer, and as long as Kerry refuses to release all of his records, he has only himself to blame.
A US Government agency had to provide that document to the Senate committee, so it must still exist.
One option that is left out is that Kerry was an FBI, DOD mole in the antiwar movement.
Now that you mention it, I recall honorable dischages from reserves to accept commission and from final separation. Probably one from release from active duty, too. I haven't looked in those files in 20 years.
I lean towards KGB
I lean towards, both.
How would you explain him leaving all of our POWs overseas if he 'were' FBI?
I voted "purposely disceitful"...I do not believe them to be traitors, in that they were no longer in uniform and had a 1st amendment right to their opinion.
I didn't say he was or that I can explain it, only that that is an option.
Having not read the report, I don't have any idea what it says.
I do believe that we left POW's.
Interesting theory.
The date has me intrigued - 1977.
Kerry's own website states he was discharged in 1978, which was surprise for everyone, leading the kool-aid drinker to believe the theory (without overtly lying) that he was in the Reserves (even though no record exists of him ever serving the minimum requirements of two weeks a year, one week-end a month.
This is something that should be followed up.
POWs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=166#166
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=169#169
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=170#170
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=171#171
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=172#172
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=173#173
Kerry's Cover up:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1209454/posts?page=47#47
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1209454/posts?page=201#201
Testimony of Michael D. Benge
before the House International Relations Committee
Chaired by the Honorable Benjamin A. Gilman,
November 4, 1999.
My name is Michael D. Benge. While serving as a civilian Economic Development Officer in the Central Highlands of South Viet Nam, I was captured by the North Vietnamese during the Tet Offensive on January 28, 1968.
You've got that right.
Now the conundrum.
Kerry reenacted all of his "bravery" for the vidoe camera for a planned documentary to be released in October. I believe Brinkly is attached to it, but don't take my word for it.
Will he dare to release this video and bring up SBVT right before the election?
Will be interesting to see. It's plain he is a disgrace, but exactly where does his lack of self-awareness fall.
Would any of this pardon information have any bearing at all on his revised medal citations? For example, would he have been required to have an honorable discharge or a clean record before making the request?
The reason I'm asking is that he could have done it much sooner, but he didn't.
Or perhaps he did it as soon as he got to the Senate and it is only a time issue.
Thankfully, that thread I put up has NAMES and the camps listed.
This is out of the bag. They can't cover this any more.
I wonder if Bush had this 'included' in his SOTU when he referenced Human Trafficking?
I'll go back and read your post and see what I find.
You receive a DD-214 when released from active duty, EAS, not when your obligation is over, EOS.
Your entire post is a waste of bandwidth. You want Kerrys records, file a FOIA request.
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