Posted on 09/06/2004 8:26:18 AM PDT by schaketo
Foes fear ballot issue will take away benefits
GRAND RAPIDS - At least one poll shows solid support among Michigan residents for a constitutional ban on gay marriage, but a clergyman says that doesn't guarantee voters will endorse the idea.
The state Court of Appeals ruled Friday that a proposed constitutional amendment defining marriage in Michigan as a union between one man and one woman should appear on the Nov. 2 ballot.
Opponents including the Rev. Doug Van Doren, pastor of Plymouth Congregational Church in Grand Rapids, fear the amendment will be used to take away benefits for same-sex partners.
"People like to paint Michigan and particularly west Michigan as far more reactionary than it is," he said. "I think there is a good chance it will not pass."
Kent County Commissioner Harold Voorhees, who led petition-gathering efforts in western Michigan said, "The historic definition of marriage has been one man and one woman. We think it ought to stay that way."
A poll conducted in early July by EPIC/MRA of Lansing found that 61 percent supported a constitutional ban on gay marriage, 34 percent were opposed and 5 percent were undecided.
This marriage issue for gay people confuses the hell out of me.
First off what right are they saying is being denied to them? To marry? What does marriage constitute legally?
- marriage entitles a spouse to inherit without incurring an inheritance tax on the estate
- marriage entitles either spouse a divorce and settlement
- marriage means you can file jointly, and probably even more in taxes
From my point of view, that is two negatives to one positive. In the event that Republicans have our way, the inheritance tax will disappear. That will leave two negatives and no positive reason to get married under the law.
If what gay people want is the right to declare their love for one another... What is stopping them now? NOTHING! Anyone who gives a damn can go to witness their vows, and the rest of us can get on with our lives.
If what they want is to force us to watch them exchange vows, well - that would violate my right to ignore them, and besides - the attention and approval of others is not a right, it is earned.
So if gay people as a community want to earn my respect they are welcome to start trying... by shutting up about marriage as if it is this great and wonderful institution of the law. It isn't. It is a great and wonderful institution of "faith". Legal recognition doesn't substitute for "faith" ever, and it never will.
Now how hard is that?
(I tend to rant at useless causes by liberal whiners.)
The only real question is will it pass with 70% of the vote or just 60%....
Liberalsim is in America started as liberalism in the church. Both go hand in hand. I don't know why this clerygyman is so opposed to same-sex marriage. There isn't much that makes me angrier than hearing liberals make senseless arguments. But seeing liberals in the church turn their back on the Word of God and abandon Christianity in favor of Worldy concerns is one of those things. Whether it is same-sex marriage, PCUSA's completely idiotic rule to not deal with Israel, and other things of that nature make me go nuts.
Marriage marriage means access to children. That is the prize they have their eye on.
If and when the gays get legal marriage, they will start the drumbeat for adopting/fostering children (which is already legal in some states).
They will also demand laws enabling surrogate pregnancies so male couples can hire women to bear their children, etc.
The Boy Scouts refuse to accept gay volunteers or employees and so far the courts have supported them. Do you think that will remain the same when it is "married" gay men who demand to participate with their adopted or purchased children?
Plymouth Congregational ChurchIt's a splendid structure over in the richer part of town, 1 or 2 miles from here. A couple of elderly relatives were buried out of there. Lots of stupid liberals -- and liberalism is reactionary, nyah nyah.
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent
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