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Posted on 09/06/2004 4:45:27 AM PDT by kattracks
RUSSIAN security sources yesterday claimed al-Qaeda masterminded the Beslan bloodbath, using 'puppet' Chechen rebels.They pointed the finger of blame at shadowy al-Qaeda financial chief Abu Omar as-Seyf and Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev.
Sergei Markov, an analyst close to the Kremlin, said: 'This is the beginning of a new political-military force joining forces against Russia.
'It is unclear exactly what the force is, but people like Basayev are merely its puppets.'
As-Seyf, an Islamic extremist, is a top-ranking al-Qaeda fanatic who intelligence sources believe is Osama bin Laden's man in Chechnya. He is in charge of channelling millions of pounds from the Arab world to rebels in the republic.
He is also thought to be a member of al-Qaeda's high council,the Shura.
Russia's Federal Security Service suspect him of being behind the recent downing of two passenger planes by Chechen separatists.
Warlord Basayev was responsible for the Moscow theatre siege in 2002, when 42 of his terrorists took 800 hostages - 129 of whom died. From his woodland hideout, he has sent out waves of suicide bombers.
Russian officials claimed several of the hostage-takers at Beslan were from Arab countries, but have yet to back that up with evidence.
Japan Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi has expressed his condolences to the families of the deceased. He also stated that the bandits should receive death penalty what they had done. President of South Korea No Mu Hen in his telephone conversation with the Russian President has expressed his readiness to aid Moscow recover after the terrorist acts. Foreign Minister of Indonesia has also given a speech in Jakarta where he accused terrorists" actions. Paris in turn has condemned "the most horrific action." Israel has offered with child rehabilitation.
Thank you, our foreign friends. But how come not a single authoritative figure in Russia steps forward with such propositions? They could have at least expressed their condolences to people who have lost their loved ones due to the terror. Are they too busy? Are they so busy that in the course of entire 11 hours no one had time to say something to its people? Or did the immense grief clouded their minds and completely disabled them to utter a word?
Remember, the first words of sympathy and support to George Bush right after the events of September 11 have been expressed by Vladimir Putin. Obviously, citizens of Beslan are not American presidents. However, their grief is no lesser. They would have listened to their president. But the Russian President is not the only one to blame. Russian Prime Minister Fradkov is also silent. All of those who are responsible for social, medical, military problems are also speechless. Leaders of political parties appear to be mute as well. Perhaps, they are all just way too busy with their political affairs. As for us, ordinary people, we have no other choice but wait and see when another blast (God forbid!) will take place or another school will be seized by terrorists. Well then, we"ll wait until someone announces another mourning day in Russia. After all, it seems as though Russian government has nothing else to say.
(Note: ...no mention of Bush and the U.S. offering full support and expressing condolences)
Excerpt: from Russian government is not in a rush to comment such mind-boggling eruption of terrorism.
The Clinton years are so full of scandalous foreign policy blunders, I sometimes find it difficult to keep them all straight--but I think you might be right. Certainly, the Western media took the side of the Chechens over and over during those years. They were portrayed as the victims of a brutal oppression by Russia. Not much was said about what the Chechens might have done...
Such a solution sounds harsh, but it did work, didn't it? We may have to make similar choices in the years ahead.
A point of terminology: We all agree that they're Islamic fascists, not freedom fighters. Can we also all agree that this is WW IV? We won WW III, which was the Cold War.
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If real proof bit you on the hindquarters, would you even know it? On some of these threads, there are pictures of some of the dead perps, and they sure don't look like Chechens. Others have seen videos of some of the live perps in custody (there are three that we know of), and state they look like Arabs. The children said they were speaking a language that was not Russian, nor any of the other languages spoken in the region. Add it all up, and it looks like the reports could well be true. And please remember, the first reports of the terrorists having Arabs among them came from the hostages themselves.
"This story presents no proof whatsoever to back up the allegations of a Russian government that needs to deflect attention from the very poor job it did in handling the terroris attack. There's no story to "kill" yet. As far as I'm concerned, until there is real proof or even a strong likelihood of an Al Qaeda involvement, it's just evil Chechnyian terrorists so stoney-hearted that they can bayonet a child or shoot children in the back. Evil. Pure evil."
You may be right. But if Putin mistakenly use this as a reason to fight AQ, I'd call that harmless error.
One concern we might all consider: will these events compel Putin to resurrect some of the KGB, secret police, kind of things? Will many hard-won liberties fall by the wayside to better confront this evil? I know Putin is between a rock and a hard place, but I wonder if they will retreat into the "old ways" which might seem to have worked better than what they have now.
Everyone has a different idea as to which WW it is, so perhaps I'll just begin refering to it as "World War Whatever."
Make that WWIV, if you count the Cold War as a war.
Cowboys. /no sarc
Good point about Putin and appeasement.
This question, if not dodged, should puzzle and muzzle an anti-war advocate:
When HAS appeasement ever worked? Hummmm?
Fact: It has NEVER "kept the peace". Instead, it has given aggressors, like Adolf Hitler & Saddam Hussein, more time to strategize and execute a better war plan to kill many more. Example: Before and during WWII, Hitler was allowed to order the slaughter of 6 Million Jews. And before Operation Iraqi Freedom (1991-2003), Hussein was allowed to kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.
Ironically, the UN and its mission in Iraq to “keep the peace” is proof of how worthless and deceitful the UN is. The UN allowed Hussein to reign with terror and killing. The UN could and would not confront Hussein even though he was guilty of crimes of mass murder. Hussein violated over a dozen UN resolutions in ten years time, including the Gulf War cease fire agreement Hussein made in 1991 on up to the final UN resolution 1441 in 2002. Much blame could be attributed to UN corruption stemming from a secret contract with Hussein, publicly named the UN Oil for Food program. The oil contract was a scam, which reached approximately 100 Billion in proceeds. The contract did not feed Iraqis as it was intended; rather it made many political leaders very rich through “kick backs”. The contract involved the UN charging 2.2 % of all proceeds, which meant that the 100 billion in sales amounted to 2.2 billion directed to the UN treasury. This UN extortion by Secretary General Kofi Annan and other top officials directly involved lucrative contracts with France, Germany and Russia. And since these three countries were benefiting while Hussein was “contained”, they were not in a position to join our coalition to confront Hussein.
In summary, the absence of war does NOT define "peace".
well, the russians showed the bodies, fingerprints were done, why would you doubt it? And the Russians, confronted inn a small town by 17 terrorists who planned were caught off guard,,we would be too. Dont think that we would be any better. And the Russians didn't appear to start the shoot out. I think the outcome was foreordained. And criticizing the Russians and demanding some standard of proof that is very cynical {who are you to demand it anyway} is having your head inn the sand. Why are you so reluctant to believe al quaeda could be involved? Think they are sweet guys with no global reach who wouldn't do this?
Of course it may not be a "World War" officially, until we save the French from the bonds caused by their appeasement.
Thought you would like to know.
Pro Osetiyu pogovorim v drugoy raz, a luchshe voobshche ne budem sporit', potomu chto possorimsya. Moe mnenie traditsionno ne sovpadaet s tvoim. Ne v chechentsakh problema! Nel'zya prichislyat' vsyu natsiyu k terroristam v ugodu Putinu. Terrorizm - ponyatie internatsional'noe.The lady lost her daughter and fiance at Dubrovka, yet refuses to blame the Checnyans."Let's talk about Ossetia another time, but in general we won't argue, because we'll disagree. My opinion traditionally doesn't coincide with yours. The problem is not the Chechnyans! You can't count a whole nation as terrorists to Putin's benefit. Terrorism - it's an international understanding."
CL-
Perhaps you are correct. But really, when it comes to dealing with Islam we need to have a new standard for for "proof".
That is, we do not "prove" the involvement various terrorist/islamic groups or countries at all.
We have an automatic presumption of guilt for all Arab/terrorist countries. This remains the case until they have provided "proof" beyond a reasonable doubt that they are NOT involved.
If you combine this with a certainty of retaliation then we turn the tables from the presentsituation - Islam has to come to terms and accept the west on OUR terms. We allow them to exist in so far as they prove thoroughly and often that they are NOT involved in terrorist acts.....or development of WMD......or "hostage taking".....or (fill in the blank)
I hope that the Russians declaring that Al Qaeda is involved is a step in this direction. Even if they aren't involved at all (a dubious assumption) blaming them and retaliating against them offers no downside that I can see.
As far as we are concerned, we need to declare the retaliation that the Arab world will face should the US suffer a WMD attack. Then we can offer to entertain proof from Arab/muslim states that they are not involved in such activities, either directly, or indirectly.
We can be the ones that say "well, we understand that you are trying, but it just isn't enough.....if you only did XXX then we would be assured of your good will and maybe we will allow you to escape punishment"
I'll add what I said right after 9/11...THE CRUSADES LIVE.
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