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Exposed: Scandal of double voters (68% are Democrats)
nydailynews.com ^ | August 21, 2004 | RUSS BUETTNER

Posted on 08/22/2004 10:08:07 AM PDT by Andy from Beaverton

Exposed: Scandal
of double voters

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.
Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines.

The finding is even more stunning given the pivotal role Florida played in the 2000 presidential election, when a margin there of 537 votes tipped a victory to George W. Bush.

Computer records analyzed by The News don't allow for an exact count of how many people vote in both places, because millions of names are regularly purged between elections.

But The News found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show.

Officials in both states acknowledge that voting in multiple states is something of a perfect crime, one officials don't have the means to catch.

"I can't imagine how the supervisors would have access to that information," said Jenny Nash, spokeswoman for the Florida secretary of state. "As far as I know, cross-state registry has not been discussed."

The News' investigation also found:

  • Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

  • Nearly 1,700 of those registered in both states requested that absentee ballots be mailed to their home in the other state, where they are also registered. But that doesn't raise red flags with officials in either place.

    Efforts to prevent people from registering and voting in more than one state rely mostly on the honor system.

    New registrants are required to supply a prior address, which kicks in a notification process to election officials in the other jurisdiction. Officials also cross-check change-of-address records from the U.S. Postal Service.

    Both procedures largely count on the honesty of the person registering. And neither would catch people who have homes in both places - including the thousands of snowbirds, the term for Northerners who winter in southern climes.

    "There's no extensive investigation normally on a voter registration form," said Steven Richman, general counsel for the city Board of Elections. "We accept it at its face value."

    Eliminating the potential to vote in multiple states would require creating a national voter registration system with federally assigned voter ID numbers, said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University in Washington and a voting rights expert.

    "I don't think the country is ready for that," Lichtman said. "It may well be that a few hundred people spilling over and voting twice may be an inevitable friction within the system."

    Florida election officials were widely criticized after the 2000 election for instituting policies that resulted in thousands of African-Americans, who tend to vote Democratic, being turned away at the polls.

    Republican officials are battling similar charges in this year's election.

    Glenda Hood, the Florida secretary of state appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush in 2002, created a list of felons to be purged from the voter rolls. But the methodology used to create the list guaranteed few Hispanics, who typically vote Republican in Florida, would be purged, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported.

    In another problem, The ­Miami Herald reported that more than 2,000 convicted felons on the list had regained their voting rights after receiving clemency. Hood has opened an internal investigation.

    An advocacy group, People for the American Way, has asked U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a federal probe.

    But for all the fire Florida takes, there's no hint that New York's election officials are performing any better.

    At the city and state level, the election boards are deeply politicized patronage mills that rely on aging technology.

    The Help America Vote Act of 2002, passed in response to the 2000 election debacle, requires all states to create statewide voter registration databases by Jan. 1, 2006.

    Florida already has created the statewide registry, though it doesn't yet fully comply with the new law.

    Like most things in Albany, a bill needed to implement the federal law is stalled in the Legislature, so even the federal money already received can't be spent.

    There are no plans to match the registries across states.

    The News contacted more than a dozen people registered in both places, some of whom have voted twice in the same election. Most described themselves as native New Yorkers who briefly flirted with Florida.

    Barbara Donovan, 59, was a transplanted New Yorker living in Florida when she visited her daughter in the city on Sept. 11, 2001. Overcome by solidarity with her hometown, she decided to move back. She registered to vote from her daughter's apartment. But her mother became ill and she returned to Florida.

    Her registrations in both ­places remain active, but Donovan has never voted twice. "I guess if you were some kind of zealot, you could vote in both places," Donovan said. "And last time the election was so close, it really makes you wonder."

    Parties can count on 'em–twice

    Norman Seigel puts a new twist on the political adage "vote early, and often."

    In Siegel's case, you could add "over and over again."

    Siegel (no relation to the civil rights lawyer of the same name) has voted twice in seven elections since 1988, including four presidential races, ­records show.

    Registered as a Republican at his home in Briarwood, Queens, and in Pinellas Park, Fla., Siegel has usually filed an absentee ballot in one or both places.

    Reached at his Florida home, Siegel interrupted a News reporter who was telling him that thousands of people are registered to vote in both states.

    "That's illegal," Siegel interjected. "You have to pick one place as your residence and vote there."

    Told that the records show he maintains registrations in both places, Siegel said he had not voted in Florida, then said he had not voted in New York.

    When he was told that records show he has voted in both places, Siegel cut off the conversation. "I have to go," he said.

    Irving and Magdolna Hertz of Borough Park, Brooklyn, also made a habit of being counted - twice. Magdolna, 85, voted in both New York and Florida during the November general elections in 1996, 1997 and 1998. Irving, 91, did the same in 1996 and 1998. Each time, they both mailed absentee ballots to ­Miami and voted at the polls in Brooklyn.

    Reached on the phone in Brooklyn, Irving Hertz interupted a reporter before a question could be asked.

    "I'm not here today," Hertz said and hung up. He did not return later calls.

    Several New Yorkers who have voted twice in elections said it happened by accident.

    Joseph Moschella, 59, a retired Transit Authority supervisor, said his dual vote in the 2000 presidential election was a mistake caused by his annual snowbird migration.

    The registered Republican in Melbourne Beach, Fla., and on Staten Island said he thought his absentee ballot to Florida hit the mail too late, so he voted in New York as well.

    "What happened was, I mailed it, but wanted to make sure I got my vote," Moschella said. "I'm pretty sure if you don't mail it by a certain date it's void."

    Edwin Peterson, 66, a registered Democrat in Palm Coast, Fla., and St. Albans, Queens, attributed his dual vote in the 2000 election to his distrust of the party running the Sunshine State.

    "That was a situation where Florida is so messed up with the Republicans, you don't know if your vote is even going to be counted," Peterson said. "It's been like that forever."

    Russ Buettner



TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; US: Florida; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2000election; 2004electionfraud; allanlichtman; corruptdems; democratscheat; dirtytricks; fraud; howtostealanelection; rattricks; scampaign; votefraud; voterfraud
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To: Miss Marple; Howlin; PhiKapMom

Excellent example of media bias while maintaining a fig leaf of 'we criticize both sides', and a resource for the post-Nov. election fights.


61 posted on 08/22/2004 11:30:05 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Andy from Beaverton

BUMP FOR THE SUPPORT OF SWIFT VETS HERE... http://www.swiftvets.com/


62 posted on 08/22/2004 11:32:31 AM PDT by freddiedavis
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To: Betaille
I'm not so sure the voters are the ones to blame in this instance.

Any voter who willfully votes more than once in an election is certainly to blame for their own crime.

63 posted on 08/22/2004 11:35:26 AM PDT by NautiNurse ("I served in Viet Nam, and we have better hair"----John F'n Kerry campaign platform)
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To: Capricam

Theresa and the bogus war hero could conceivably get dozens or even hundreds of votes under such a scenario where property ownership entitles one to a vote.

OTOH, I think that only tax paying citizens should have a vote. Why should Government free loaders get to vote on issues which effect the purses of working persons?


64 posted on 08/22/2004 12:36:22 PM PDT by Radix (John Kerry is finally not going to do a 180, especially when it comes to releasing his form 180!)
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To: ProudVet77

You mean to tell me that a person with two addresses can cast their vote on election day and send in an absentee ballot and both votes would count? TELL ME IT AIN'T SOOOOOOO,..... OH GAWD...SOMEBODY GET ME A DRINK...QUICKO!


65 posted on 08/22/2004 12:37:40 PM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: jsbankston

Should illegal immigrants get to vote?


66 posted on 08/22/2004 12:53:48 PM PDT by Bogey78O (John Kerry: Better than Ted Kennedy!)
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To: ApplegateRanch

And what of the electoral college?


67 posted on 08/22/2004 12:56:42 PM PDT by Bogey78O (John Kerry: Better than Ted Kennedy!)
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To: Bogey78O
What of the Electoral College?

How would it be affected, you mean? It wouldn't be any more affected than it already is by people moving, dieing, and being born.

It is still one FEDERAL vote, in a state of legal residency, which presumably, would also be the state-of-record for the census.

The population is always in flux, but reapportionment only occurs every ten years, after the census, so the EC is always slightly out of whack anyway.

If people in these positions either split their vote like we did--wife resident & registered in one state, husband in the other--or switch their legal residency back and forth depending on which issues which year are most important to them, the EC is still out of whack.

Don't think the states involved don't both want tax returns showing ALL income! In our case, we were at least spared part of that by having one residence in a state that does not have a state income tax.

However, property & other taxes applied. So did whacko initiatives by Lefist organizations on everything from anti-guns, to "humane" fishing, to limiting property rights, to legalizing drugs, to 'gay rights'. All of these affect both property values and 'living values'.

Statistically, it would not be enough to matter at the EC level, but would provide fairness at the local level.
68 posted on 08/22/2004 1:36:13 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: concerned about politics

Unfortunately, this article only says that they "could" vote twice, not that they do. But I still think it has strong spin potential.

In truth, mostly it is probably stupid seniors and students (lib constitutencies) who don't bother to close out their registration in their original home state.


69 posted on 08/22/2004 1:53:25 PM PDT by jojodamofo
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To: July 4th
The article ENCOURAGES the practice of double voting by telling how difficult it is to detect (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

Note the example used is a Republican, signalling Democrats that it's ok to do.

It IS the NY Daily News, after all.

70 posted on 08/22/2004 1:59:45 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: jsbankston

You got drivers licences for each location?

How about filing your income taxes.? Paying state taxes to all the states you own property in? Car registrations?


71 posted on 08/22/2004 2:06:23 PM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: jsbankston
Seems to me that as a property owner I should have a voice in each city and each state.

Where you live is where you get your voice. One man, one vote

Anything less will bring back the aristocracy in this country.

72 posted on 08/22/2004 2:06:41 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Truth, Justice and the Texan Way)
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To: RoseofTexas

I think "students" have been doing this for years. They vote on absentee out of their parents address, and they vote in the college town where they attend school.

I have bitched about this for over 30 years. I cannot get anyone to listen to me, and I personally knew the Registrar of Voters in my county. Sad. Same old story- "Gee--they wouldn't do that, would they? We don't have the money to chase this." I don't think you should be able to "vote" in the town where you attend school. You are only there for a short time, and are usually NOT a property owner. Voting on local issues that don't impact your pocketbook shouldn't be a priviledge for "students".


73 posted on 08/22/2004 2:12:54 PM PDT by ridesthemiles (ridesthemiles)
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To: Andy from Beaverton

Jeez, 46,000 New Yorkers got the option to vote twice, but many of our military folks never even got the opportunity to do it once.


74 posted on 08/22/2004 2:46:48 PM PDT by mass55th ( “Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings.”)
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To: Andy from Beaverton
The News' investigation also found: Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

Or, "How the democrats almost stole the election"

75 posted on 08/22/2004 2:49:10 PM PDT by cinFLA
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To: Andy from Beaverton

Thanks for posting this.

I just e-mailed the original article to the Florida Department of Elections.


76 posted on 08/22/2004 3:07:10 PM PDT by EllaMinnow (swimming through the blogosphere)
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To: Andy from Beaverton

bttt


77 posted on 08/22/2004 3:08:22 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Andy from Beaverton
Florida election officials were widely criticized after the 2000 election for instituting policies that resulted in thousands of African-Americans, who tend to vote Democratic, being turned away at the polls.

I thought that 2000 saw the largest African-American turnout in Florida history.

-PJ

78 posted on 08/22/2004 3:17:37 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (It's still not safe to vote Democrat.)
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To: Andy from Beaverton

They will be triple votinng this fall and the dead always vote Democrat and vote often.


79 posted on 08/22/2004 3:45:30 PM PDT by KriegerGeist (Lifetime membership of the "Radical-Right-Wing-Kook-Factor")
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To: Geist Krieger

bookmark


80 posted on 08/22/2004 5:44:07 PM PDT by Dianna
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