Posted on 08/22/2004 7:16:30 AM PDT by GRRRRR
Here is a closed captioned transcript of Van O'Dell (SVFT) and
Chris Wallaced hosted O'Dell and ..... but seemed to take on O'Dell a little too much if you ask me..
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Transcript coming...pending first break...
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THE FACTS ABOUT SENATOR JOHN KERRY (D-MA)
KERRY: DUKAKIS
'S LT. GOV. WHO VOTESOn Key Votes, Kerry Voted 100% Of The Time With Senator Kennedy In 2001, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, and 1985. Over the course of his Senate career, Kerry has sided with Senator Kennedy 94% of the time for key votes.
As Michael Dukakis' Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates. Later as a U.S. Senator in 1988, he defended the program: "The furlough program in Massachusetts is tougher than the federal program." (John King,
"Bush Surrogate Gets Ambushed In Dukakis Territory," The Associated Press, July 6, 1988)KERRY CLAIMS HE
'S FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT VOTES FOR HIGHER TAXES, AND AGAINST TAX CUTSKerry Has Voted Against A Balanced Budget Amendment At Least Five Times. Other fiscally irresponsible votes include at least three key votes against lowering overall spending.
Kerry Voted Against President Bush's Tax Cuts, At Least The Tenth Key Anti-Tax Relief Vote Of His Senate Career.
Kerry Voted For The Biggest Tax Increase In American History Under President Clinton.
Kerry Has A Lifetime Rating Of 26% From Citizens Against Government Waste And Is A Long-Time Supporter Of Federal Funding For Boston's "Big Dig." Former Senate Government Affairs Chairman John McCain called the project "the biggest, most costly public works project in U.S. history." The "Big Dig" was estimated to cost $2.6 billion when it was approved in 1985. The cost to date has totaled more than $13.6 billion. (
"Congressional Ratings," Citizens Against Government Waste Website, www.cagw.org, Accessed January 7, 2003; Natalie M. Henry, "Senate Commerce Investigates Overspending On Boston's €˜Big Dig,'" Environment And Energy Daily, May 3, 2000)KERRY IS EXTREME ON ABORTION, SUPPORTING FEDERAL FUNDING AND PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTIONS
Kerry Voted At Least Three Times Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortions.
Kerry Voted To Allow Federal Funding Of Abortions And To Provide Abortion Counseling In Federally-Funded Clinics.
KERRY IN DEPTH
KERRY: DUKAKIS
'S LT. GOV. WHO VOTESOn Key Votes, Kerry Voted 100% Of The Time With Senator Kennedy In 2001, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, and 1985. Over the course of his Senate career, Kerry has sided with Senator Kennedy 94% of the time for key votes. (Roll Call Key Votes, http://oncongress.cq.com, December 2001)
Kerry's Lifetime Vote Rating From Americans For Democratic Action Is Five Points Higher Than That Of Fellow Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy. While Kennedy only rates an 88 lifetime average, Kerry has a lifetime average of 93. (Americans For Democratic Action Website, www.adaction.org, Accessed December 9, 2002)
Kerry And Kennedy Had Exactly The Same Low Rating From The American Conservative Union In Both 2001 (4%) And 2000 (12%). Kerry
's lifetime rating from the ACU is 5%. (American Conservation Union Website, www.acuratings.org, Accessed December 9, 2002)Kerry Is Against The Death Penalty.
"I'm opposed to the death penalty in the criminal justice system because I think it's applied unfairly . . . ." (NBC's "Meet The Press," December 1, 2002)Kerry Is An Extreme Environmentalist Who Voted With The Activist Group, The League Of Conservation Voters, An Average Of 95% Of The Time In The Last Three Congresses. (League Of Conservation Voters Website, www.lcv.org, Accessed December 9, 2002)
Kerry Has Voted For At Least Seven Major Reductions In Defense And Military Spending Necessary For Our National Security. (S. 1438, Roll Call Vote #286: Motion agreed to 53-47: R 21-28; D 31-19, September 25, 2001; S. 1087, Roll Call Vote #397: Passed 62-35: R 48-4; D 14-31, September 5, 1995; S. 1298, Roll Call Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, September 9, 1993; S. 3114, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, August 7, 1992; S. 2399, Roll Call Vote #56: Motion rejected 50-48: R 3-40; D 47-8, March 26, 1992; H.R. 2707, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69 R 3-39; D 25-30, September 10, 1991; S. 1352, Roll Call Vote #148: Motion agreed to 50-47: R 37-6; D 13-41, June 27, 1989)
As Michael Dukakis' Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates. Later as a U.S. Senator in 1988, he defended the program: "The furlough program in Massachusetts is tougher than the federal program." (John King,
"Bush Surrogate Gets Ambushed In Dukakis Territory," The Associated Press, July 6, 1988)KERRY CLAIMS HE
'S FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT HAS A HISTORY OF VOTING FOR HIGHER TAXES AND AGAINST TAX CUTSKerry Called For "Fiscal Responsibility," Just Like When He Voted For The 1993 Tax Hike, The Largest In History. "All the Democrats have generally resisted the GOP proposal to make the tax cuts permanent. . . . Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry called for a return to the fiscal responsibility we gave this country in 1993 when we passed the Deficit Reduction Act.'" (Will Lester,
"Top Democrats Complain About Bush Economic Plans, But Some Steer Away From Tax Debate," The Associated Press, October 15, 2002)Kerry Has A Lifetime Rating Of 26% From Citizens Against Government Waste And Is A Long-Time Supporter Of Federal Funding For Boston's "Big Dig." Former Senate Government Affairs Chairman John McCain called the project "the biggest, most costly public works project in U.S. history." The "Big Dig" was estimated to cost $2.6 billion when it was approved in 1985. The cost to date has totaled more than $13.6 billion. (
"Congressional Ratings," Citizens Against Government Waste Website, www.cagw.org, Accessed January 7, 2003; Natalie M. Henry, "Senate Commerce Investigates Overspending On Boston's €˜Big Dig'," Environment and Energy Daily, May 3, 2000)Kerry Voted Against President Bush's Tax Cuts, At Least The Tenth Major Anti-Tax Relief Vote Of His Senate Career. (H.R. 1836, Roll Call Vote #165: Adopted 62-38: R 50-0; D 12-38, May 23, 2001; H. Con. Res. 83, Roll Call Vote #69: Adopted 53-47: R 4-46; D 49-1, April 4, 2001; S. 1429, Roll Call Vote #247: Passed 57-43: R 52-2; D 4-41; I 1-0, July 30, 1999; H.R. 2646, Roll Call Vote #169: Adopted 59-36: R 51-2; D 8-34, June 24, 1998; H.R. 2646, Roll Call Vote #288: Rejected 56-41: R 54-1; D 2-40, October 30, 1997; H. Con. Res. 84, Roll Call Vote #92: Adopted 78-22: R 41-14; D 37-8, May 23, 1997; S. 1028, Roll Call Vote #72: Adopted 52-46: R 5-46; D 47-0, April 18, 1996; H.R. 2264, Roll Call Vote #190: Passed 50-49: R 0-43; D 49-6, June 25, 1993; H. Con. Res. 64, Roll Call Vote #83: Adopted 54-45: R 0-43; D 54-2, March 25, 1993; H.R. 3628, Roll Call Vote #298: Rejected 51-47 (needed 2/3 majority): R 45-0; D 6-47, November 15, 1989)
In September 2001, Kerry Said We Should Not Raise Taxes In An Economic Downturn.
"The first priority is the economy of our nation. And when you have a downturn in the economy, the last thing you do is raise taxes or cut spending. We shouldn't do either. We need to maintain a course that hopefully will stimulate the economy. . . . No, we should not raise taxes, but we have to put everything on the table to take a look at why we have this structural problem today. . . . you don't want to raise taxes." (NBC's "Meet The Press," September 2, 2001)In April 2002, Kerry Said He Wanted A Larger Tax Cut And Was "Not In Favor Of" A Repeal. CNN's Tucker Carlson: "Senator Kerry, . . . [many Democrats] [g]et a lot of political mileage out of criticizing [President Bush's tax cut], but nobody has the courage to say repeal it. Are you for repealing it?" Kerry: "It's not a question of courage. . . . And it's not an issue right now. We passed appropriately a tax cut as a stimulus, some $40 billion. Many of us thought it should have even maybe been a little bit larger this last year . . . . [T]he next tax cut doesn't take effect until 2004. If we can grow the economy enough between now and then, if we have sensible policies in place and make good choices, who knows what our choices will be. So it's simply not a ripe issue right now. And I'm not in favor of turning around today and repealing it." (CNN
In December 2002, Kerry Flip-Flopped. NBC's Tim Russert: "Senator . . . should we freeze or roll back the Bush tax cut?" Kerry: "Well, I wouldn't take away from people who've already been given their tax cut . . . . What I would not do is give any new Bush tax cuts. . . ." Russert: "So the tax cut that's scheduled to be implemented in the coming years . . . ." Kerry: "No new tax cut under the Bush plan. . . . It doesn't make economic sense." Russert: "Now, this is a change, because let me show you what you said in September of 2001 when I asked you the very same question." (NBC
Kerry Voted At Least Five Times To Raid The Social Security Trust Fund. (H.R. 2014, Roll Call Vote #211: Conference Report Agreed To 92-8: R 55-0; D 37-8, July 31, 1997; H.R. 2264, Roll Call Vote #247: Conference Report Agreed To 50-50, With Vice President Gore Voting Yea: R 0-44; D 50-6, August 6, 1993; H.Con.Res. 268, Roll Call Vote #167: Conference Report Agreed To 58-29: R 21-20; D 37-9, June 6, 1988; H.R. 3545, Roll Call Vote #419: Conference Report Agreed To 61-28: R 18-23; D 43-5, December 21, 1987; H.R. 3128, Roll Call Vote #379: Conference Report Agreed To 78-1: R 40-1; D 38-0, December 19, 1985)
KERRY IS EXTREME ON ABORTION, SUPPORTING FEDERAL FUNDING OF ABORTIONS AND PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTIONS
Kerry Voted At Least Three Times Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortions. (H.R. 1833, Roll Call Vote #596: Adopted 54-44: R 45-8; D 9-36, December 7, 1995; H.R. 1833, Roll Call Vote #301: Veto Override Rejected 57-41: R 45-6; D 12-35, September 26, 1996; H.R. 1122, Roll Call Vote #277: Veto Override Rejected 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, September 18, 1998)
KERRY'S KEY VOTES 107th Congress, 2001 Senate Votes Against The Bush Tax Cut: Kerry voted against a $1.35 trillion tax cut package to reduce income-tax rates, alleviate the
"marriage penalty" and gradually repeal the estate tax. (H.R. 1836, Roll Call Vote #165: Adopted 62-38: R 50-0; D 12-38, May 23, 2001)
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For Reducing Size Of The Tax Cut: Kerry voted to reduce Bush's proposed tax cut ceiling by $448 billion over 10 years. (H. Con. Res. 83, Roll Call Vote #69: Adopted 53-47: R 4-46; D 49-1, April 4, 2001) |
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Against Ashcroft Nomination: Kerry voted against confirming John Ashcroft to be Attorney General. (Roll Call Vote #8: Confirmed 58-42: R 50-0; D 8-42, February 1, 2001) |
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106th Congress, 1999-2000 Senate Votes |
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Against Genetic Privacy: Kerry voted against approving a GOP plan to restrict use of genetic information by health insurers. (Amendment To H.R. 4577, Roll Call Vote #165: Amendment Passed 58-40: R 55-0; D 3-40, June 29, 2000) |
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For Expanding Hate Crime Protections: Kerry voted to include gender, sexual orientation and disability in federal hate crime protections. (Amendment To S. 2549, Roll Call Vote #136: Amendment Passed 57-42: R 13-41; D 44-1, June 20, 2000) |
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Against Reducing Taxes: Kerry voted against reducing federal taxes by $792 billion over 10 years. (S. 1429, Roll Call Vote #247: Passed 57-43: R 53-2; D 4-41, July 30, 1999) |
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105th Congress, 1997-98 Senate Votes |
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Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortion: Kerry voted against a ban on "partial-birth" abortions. (H.R. 1122, Roll Call Vote #277: Rejected 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, September 18, 1998) |
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Against Banning Cloning: Kerry voted against allowing vote to ban human cloning. (S. 1601, Roll Call Vote #10: Cloture Motion Rejected 42-54: R 42-12; D 0-42, February 11, 1998) |
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Against Educational Savings Accounts: Kerry voted against allowing a vote to create educational savings accounts. (H.R. 2646, Roll Call Vote #288: Cloture Motion Rejected 56-41: R 54-1; D 2-40, October 30, 1997) |
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Against Fiscally Responsible Budget: Kerry voted against approving a GOP budget to cut spending and taxes. (H. Con. Res. 84, Roll Call Vote #92: Adopted 78-22: R 41-14; D 37-8, May 23, 1997) |
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Against Balanced-Budget Amendment: Kerry voted against approving a balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (S.J. Res. 1, Roll Call Vote #24: Rejected 66-34: R 55-0; D 11-34, March 4, 1997) |
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104th Congress, 1995-96 Senate Votes |
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Against Balancing The Budget: Kerry voted against a bipartisan plan to balance the budget in seven years. (S. Con. Res. 57, Roll Call Vote #150: Rejected 46-53: R 22-30; D 24-23, May 23, 1996) |
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Against Tort Reform: Kerry voted against allowing a vote to approve a cap on punitive damages in product liability cases. (H.R. 956, Roll Call Vote #152: Rejected 47-52: R 45-9; D 2-43, May 4, 1995) |
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103rd Congress, 1993-94 Senate Votes |
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Against Spending Reductions: Kerry voted to kill an amendment to reduce budget spending by $94 billion. (H.R. 3759, Roll Call Vote #35: Motion To Table Adopted 65-31: R 23-19; D 42-12, February 9, 1994) |
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For The Largest Tax Increase In American History: Kerry voted to pass Clinton's budget that raised taxes and cut spending. (H.R. 2264, Roll Call Vote #247: Adopted 51-50: R 0-44; D 50-6, With Vice President Gore Voting "Yea," August 6, 1993) |
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102nd Congress, 1991-92 Senate Votes |
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Against Stopping Missile Defense Spending Cuts: Kerry voted against a motion to kill an amendment that proposed deeper cuts in SDI spending. (S. 3114, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion To Table Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, August 7, 1992) |
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Against School Choice: Kerry voted against approving a school-choice pilot program. (S. 2, Roll Call Vote #5: Rejected 36-57: R 33-6; D 3-51, January 23, 1992) |
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Against Thomas Nomination: Kerry voted against confirming Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. (Roll Call Vote #220: Confirmed 52-48: R 41-2; D 11-46, October 15, 1991) |
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For Defense Spending Reductions: Kerry voted to transfer $3.1 billion to domestic programs from Defense department accounts. (H.R. 2707, Roll Call Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69 R 3-39; D 25-30, September 10, 1991) |
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Against Persian Gulf War: Kerry voted against authorizing the use of force in the Persian Gulf. (S.J. Res. 2, Roll Call Vote #2: Passed 52-47: R 42-2; D 10-45, January 12, 1991) |
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101st Congress, 1989-90 Senate Votes |
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Against Flag Burning Amendment: Kerry voted against a constitutional amendment on flag desecration. (S.J. Res. 332, Roll Call Vote #128: Rejected 58-42: R 38-7; D 20-35, June 26, 1990) |
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Against Parental Notification For Minors' Abortions: Kerry voted to kill an amendment requiring parental notice for minors' abortions. (H.R. 5257, Roll Call Vote #266: Motion To Table Rejected 48-48: R 8-34; D 40-14, October 12, 1990) |
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Against Considering A Capitol Gains Tax Cut: Kerry voted against allowing a vote on a capital gains tax cut. (H.R. 3628, Roll Call Vote #295: Motion To Table Rejected 51-47 (Needed 2/3 Majority): R 45-0; D 6-47, November 14, 1989) |
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100th Congress, 1987-88 Senate Votes |
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Against Death Penalty For Drug-Related Murders: Kerry voted against approving the death penalty for drug-related murders. (S. 2455, Roll Call Vote #175: Passed 65-29: R 37-6; D 28-23, June 10, 1988) |
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TV Channel 12 Sun Aug 22 09:00:28 2004
vietnam swift boats next on "fox news sunday."
[Captioning made possible by U.S. Department of education and fox broadcasting co.]
>> John kerry's been taking fire over his service in vietnam. Now he's firing back.
>> I'm not going to let anyone question my commitment to defending america then, now, or ever.
>> We'll have both sides in an exclusive debate between john hurley, national director of veterans for kerry and van odell of swift boat veterans for truth. Iraqi and U.S. Forces confront shiite cleric sadr. Could thelee spread across iraq? We'll have joseph lieberman. Plus, is kerry's decision to fight back on vietnam a sign the issue is hurting him? We'll ask our panel, brit hume, keysy connelly, bill kroft ol and juan williams. And ourda power player of the week shows you D.C. In a way you've never seen it before. All on the august 22 edition of "fox news sunday." And good morning from fox news in washington. We begin as always with the latest headlines. In iraq, militia loyal to sadr still control a sacred shrine in najaf. But there are reports U.S. War planes are conducting missions in the city and that amecan tanks are moving closer to the mosque. And the bush-cheney team has told a member of its steering committee he can no longer volunteer for the campaign. The former P.O.W. Sa peering in a tv commercial for the group swift boat veterans for truth. John kerry says the president is using the group as a front to attack his war record. Well, the biggest political story this week has not been about the war on terror or about the economy. It's been about john kerry's service in vietnam 35 years ago. Today we hope to get past all the name-calling to some actual facts. Joining us are john hurley, national director of veterans for kerry and van odell, a member of swift boat veterans for truth, the group that says kerry is lying about his record. And welcome to both of you. Let's get to it. Mr. Odell, i want to start by asking but contradictions in what some leaders of your group have been saying over the years. George elliott, who was the commander of the division, that all of your swift boats were part of, let's look at what elliott says in one of your ads now and what he said about john kerry back in 1996. Take a look.
>> John kerry has not been honest about what happened in vietnam. John turned his boats to the beach and the enemy was routed. The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon but it was an act of courage.
>> Back then when there was no presidential campaign, mr. Elliott said that kerry had acted courageously.
>> Well, yes, he did. And one of the things that we were defending, the swift boat veterans for truth are for the truth. But at that time, john kerry was being attacked for being a war criminal by his opponent. And george elliott -- I've never defended john kerry. George elliott felt it was necessary to defend him because of the lies that were being told about him for his service at that time. Right now we're trying to --
>> But here's a man who says john kerry has not been honest about what happened in vietnam. And in 1996 he said he act courageously. Let me show you a statement by another one of your members. Let's take a look at what he says now and what he said in 1996. Here it is.
>> He lacks the capacity to lead. It was mainly won because of the bravado and the courage of the young officers that ran the boats, the swift boats and the coast guard cutters and senator kerry was no exception. He was among the finest of those swift boat drivers.
>> Again, here's a man who now lacks the capacity to lead, according to mr. Londale but back in 1996 showed courage, bravado and was one of the finest swift boat drivers.
>> Again, you have to ask him about what he said about that. But they were defending him against lies that he was a war criminal. He wasn't a war criminal any more than we were, even though he said so on tv. At that time we were trying to defend the truth about what actually happened in vietnam. And what we're trying to do now and londale, elliott and all of us agree that he's not fit to be commander in chief for what he did in vietnam and what he did when he came back.
>> How do you explain these 180-degree contradictions in whathese two men are saying now and what they said eight years ago?
>> Well, I know they've been on tv explaining this. I can't explain what was in their heart. But I do know they wanted to defend him about the lies that he was a war criminal. He wasn'T. Even though he said it whenever he came back to the U.S. Senate.
>> Ok, let's switch to you, mr. Hurley. Senator kerry has repeatedly said he was sitting on a gunboat five miles inside cambodia on christmas eve 1968 being shot at while the president denied there were any U.S. Troops there. In 1986 senate speech, kerry had this to say --
>> Simple question, what proof do you have that john kerry was in cambodia on christmas eve 1968?
>> I think, chris, what what is seared in john kerry's mind is that he was under fire. On christmas eve, P.C.F. 44, john kerry was on patrol up near the cambodian border. They did come under fire that night. An old man was killed that night. They came under fire three times that night. It's a watery area. They were in that vicinity. I don't think anyone knows for sure, but they were near cambodia.
>> But he doesn't say near cambodia, he says it was seared in my memory that we were five miles inside cambodia on a specific night.
>> Right. He was five miles in cambodia -- but not that night. He was five miles on a different occasions. He was near cambodia on christmas eve. That's well-documented. They came under five three separate times that night. It's being under fire is what's seared in miss mind.
>> What proof do you have that kerry was inside cambodia?
>> John kerry's record.
>> Do you have a record?
>> No. They were in cambodia. They were delivering various supplies. They were in there. His crew will say the same thing.
>> Well, you say the crew, he's had crew members who have stood up and defended him on almost everything else. Do you have a single crew member who's come forward to say he was five miles inside cambodia?
>> This hasn't been an issue until really recently. Why we're revisiting where john kerry was on a single night in 1968 is beyond me. The same questions can be asked of president bush. Where was he when he was to be reporting for duty in alabama? John kerry acknowledges he was in cambodia. Where he was is not part of this discussion.
>> I take it then the answer is no, you don't vay single crew member who will say he was in five miles inside cambodia on christmas eve 1968 or any other night?
>> On other nights, yes. On december 24, they will not say that --
>> Who will say that?
>> It was the 94 boat. This issue hasn't come up. The reason why it hasn't been addressed. On christmas eve, he was on the 44 boat. They were near the cambodian border. They may or may not have crossed over. On a different occasion on the 94 boat, they were inside cambodia. The crew will testify to that.
>> Ok, mr. Odell, let's go back to you. Let's talk about the one key incident that you and john kerry were both a part of, march 13, 1969, when your swift boats came under attack and jim rassmann was thrown out of kerry's boat. You say, your group says, but you specifically say that john kerry's bronze star citation is a lie, and that, in fact, he did not come under enemy fire that day. Do you stand by that?
>> I stand by that 100%. Let me tell you, because i was there, we were on the battlefield together, so to speak in this small river. But we came up and the three boat was blown up when we came by on the left side of the river. John kerry's boat was on the right side of the river. If you listen to what he and rassmann first said is the whole fleet took off. We said no, they couldn't have because the three boat was dead in the water. Everybody on the three boat was incapacitated. We stayed there, the 23 boat with me and three other crew members and the 51 boat and we protected it. The 43 boat protected on the other side. John kerry went down river. He came back. He picked up rassmann. But during that time, our boat picked up two members.
>> Specifically you say, and you say as you sit here today, that there was no enemy fire from either bank?
>> There was no enemy fire. Let me say something -- john kerry's report said there was 5,000 meters of fire. That's 3.2 miles. That's long the seminary ridge at the battle of gettysburg. We would have all been dead. There was no bullet holes in any boat and no one else was wounded. There couldn't have been fire.
>> Let's look at the records from 1969. I have here john kerry's -- the recommendation for him to receive a bronze star medal. And let's look at what this document says. It says that there were two mine explosions, including one that knocked jim rassmann off kerry's boat. And then it says this about kerry --
>> Mr. Odell, this recommendation for john kerry to receive a bronze star, this recommendation that said he was courageous under fire was signed by george elliott, a member of swift boat veterans for truth.
>> Yes, it was. Yes, it was, because he trusted what his officers told him. He didn't have any reason not to trust them. The spot report was written by john kerry. But I'll tell you this, I was there --
>> How do you have the evidence that the after action report was written by john kerry?
>> He was the officer that volunteered to write it.
>> Do you have a document?
>> No, i do not.
>> You do not have a document -- and you're saying that all of these people there, that he made up the story and with all of you there, that he made up a story that there was enemy fire and everybody else just accepted it?
>> No, nobody else accepted it because we never saw it. None of us knew that he got the bronze star. We didn't know until after he left about the purple heart. And i didn't know about his bronze star until about three months ago. As a matter of fact --
>> Wait a minute. Another member of your group who was also in that same action also received a bronze star and his citation also says there was enemy fire. I want to show you something else, these are the after action reports from march 1969, these are the reports of the action. These did not come from an individual person. They talk about, and let's take a look at it, they say that the boats received heavy A.W., Automatic weapons and S.A., Small arms, from both banks. And they say that all of your boats sustained battle damage. These are the documents --
>> I've seen them. And these were written from kerry's spot reports. But there was no damage. The damage that was reported on the 94 boat, which were windows blown out, that happened the day before on march 12. I was up at the highest point. I could see all around. I fired a few hundred rounds when the mine first went off. After that we quit firing. And we spent an hour in the kill zone and nobody was shot or wounded.
>> Wait a minute. I mean, I've got here the recommendation that was written in real time 10 days after to recommend a bronze star for john kerry, also the one that was written for larry furlough. I've got the after action reports. Do you have a single document, a single piece of evidence from 1969 that shows that john kerry made up this story?
>> Well, I have the fact that i wasn't wounded in that 5,000 meters of fire that he wrote about in here. Do not have a single doxment.
>> The answer is no.
>> No, I do not.
>> Not a single document from 1969 --
>> Just seven eyewitness accounts.
>> From 35 years after the act --
>> But when you see a boat blow up in front of you, you remember everything about it.
>> The swift veterans attack senator kerry from his anti-war statements, especially in 1971 in which he talked about war crimes and atrocities. Let's look at part of an ad that the swift boat veterans are now running.
>> Razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of --
>> John kerry gave the enemy for free what I and many of my comrades took torture to avoid sang.
>> Mr. Hurley, didn't john kerry vastly overstate the statement in vietnam?
>> No, I don't think he did, chris. And I think this ad that you just showed and what mr. Odell was just talking about in terms of bronze star reflect the distortions and lies that are part of this campaign by swift boat veterans for truth. John kerry testified in 1971 to atrocities being committed in vietnam. "The toledo blade" has won a pulitzer prize this year for reporting on the atrocities in vietnam. General tommy franks said john kerry spoke the truth when he testified in 1971. What they have done is they've taken a piece of john kerry's testimony, left out the part that says he was reporting, repeating the testimony that was given --
>> Wait a minute. This is a fellow, john kerry in the middle of a war with some of his colleagues still fighting talking about systematic atrocities. You don't want to pass this off -- he was putting his credibility on these stories.
>> Absolutely. He's a leader. 44,000 guys are died already in vietnam at that point. They had died based on a failed policy, a failed war that richard nixon was still prosecuting. Those guys, including myself, came back and opposed that war to save lives and it worked. John kerry had the courage and leadership to stand up.
>> Did he overstate what happened in his testimony in 1971?
>> About the war in vietnam? No.
>> You're saying john kerry today stands by everything he said about the atrocities committed by people in vietnam in 1971?
>> John kerry says that he regrets the use of the language that may have offended some people. He stands behind the facts of his testimony. He stands behind the facts that atrocities were being committed in vietnam.
>> On a systematic basis.
>> Nobody likes to talk about atrocities. Systematic, based on what? I mean, you cannot say and john kerry never said that every troop in vietnam as mr. Odell's group would lead to you believe that john kerry has somehow smeared every veteran. That's ridiculous. John kerry honors the service of veterans who served in vietnam. He came back and he fought for them. He fought to save lives. He's fought for veterans --
>> I just want to make it clear, you say as the head of veterans for kerry, you're saying he stands by if not the language, he stands by the specific charges he made in his 1971 testimony?
>> He stands by the fact that he was reporting on what people testified to out --
>> Obvious that they said it. Is he standing by those were right or not?
>> Yes, of course. And so is the "toledo blade" which won a pulitzer prize. What he said was the --
>> What they said --
>> General tommy franks has said that john kerry spoke the truth in 1971. It cannot be ignored. Atrocities are part of vietnam. It's a part nobody wants to talk bit. I don't want to talk bit. John kerry doesn't want to talk bit. It is a fact of life.
>> Mr. Odell, i want to get into one last area with you. Senator kerry says that your group is a front for the white house and is doing its dirty work. What are your biggest funders, bob perry, is one of the biggest contributors in texas to republican causes and, in fact, is a close associate of karl roaf, the president's chief political man. Merrie spaeth has worked with republican causes. You have met with either one of them?
>> I've met with merri. What I want to say is our message is our message. And no one tells us what to say. I'm thankful that bob perry gave us that speed money to get started, but he's not the biggest contributor. The biggest contributor right now is the american people. We were getting about $20,000 a day in donations. When kerry came out against us and said he was going to land hus boat that first day we got over $100,000 and friday we got $260,000.
>> I'm going to give you the last word, mr. Hurley. Is this just a fact of war?
>> No, this is a republican smear campaign. The united states navy awarded john kerry a silver star, a bronze star and three purple hearts. Every single man who served under his command supports john kerry. These men were not with him on that day. But the number of others -- john o'neill never met john kerry in vietnam. This is a smear campaign and it's wrong and as mccain said it's dishonest and dishonorable.
>> I want to thank you both for talking with us today. Coming up next, does anyone have the solution for the sta
Wow, Hurley must be taking his meds again - no foaming at the mouth, just spin and lies.
Of course some military personnel might be flaming liberals - my question would be, how big is Kerry's band of brothers?
Chris Wallace, Ceci Connolly, and Juan Williams were all out of control this morning. They have taken up the torch and are doing their best to trash the Swiftboat Vets.
My email to Chirs Wallace:
Chris Wallace must be obsessed with documents. He seems to be convinced that the Swiftboat controversy can be resolved by a careful and impartial review of the documents. My own experiences of combat were noteworthy by the almost total absence of documents. What few that exist afterwards were written by people who were miles from the event, or by a few participants writing of their personal perspective hours, weeks, or years after the fact. Any competent historian will tell you that accounts contradict one another and often bear little resemblence to the battle as it really unfolded.
Politicians have frequently used documents to establish their own self-serving actions as the account of record. Ceasar's accounts of his campaigns in Gaul are not without exaggerations favorable to the author. Unfortunately, the Gaul's are silent on this. The Swiftboat Vets are not, and their version of events cannot be dismissed out of hand, simply because the documents tend to support Kerry. Like Ceasar, Kerry understood the importance of the written word and devoted considerable time to recording his war service. He's the one with the motivation to exaggerate, and you ought to understand this.
But, if you are going to be obsessed with documents, at least be consistent. Your love of documentary evidence seems to wane when you and Juan talk about the connections between the Swiftboat veterans, their contributors, and the Bush campaign. Where are the documents, Chris?
Just watched it. Kerry's supporters are spinning. Acknowledging the veracity of the charges made before Congress of atrocities by Americans will likely not enamor Nam veterans to Kerry.
They also cannot seem to understand why these 35 year old issues are being brought up. That is absurd, Kerry is responsible for the Viet Nam issues being a factor in this campaign.
Kerry was in Cambodia because he says "he was there!" The whole point is about the fact that Kerry is a liar in the first place. I think he erred with that response also.
Ever notice that the Swiftboater Vietnam Vets haven't changed their story at all. They have stated the facts and answered every question. The DNC bomb thrower points his finger at you and rants and raves. Why isn't Kerry on this show answering questions if he wants to clean things up?? Kerry changes the story everytime he opens his mouth. This guy Hurley is a DNC bomb throwing hack besides being a vet. Kerry has made this front and center...it is his main issue, yet the DNC is screaming foul...an old issue. IT IS KERRY'S ISSUE. The fact they drag W into this (who wasn't there)tells you they are lying. It has nothing to do with W. It has to do with Kerry and the Nam vets he trashed nationwide. His words back then, which he would like to recant now, tell the story.
Even his fellow comrades in the Vietnam Veterans Against the War figured out he was a phony.
On October 10, 1971, the first source advised that Kerry's speech was received by local VVAW supporters as a clear indication that Kerry is an opportunist with political aspirations.
Therefore, the source advised, support has been withdrawn from the New York City office in general and John Kerry in particular.
Wallace's direct, pretty tough questioning gave O'Dell multiple chances to stand his ground and do a great job of it, too. O'Dell was believable, and Wallace came across as "fair and balanced."
Kerry, sign the SF180. Then everyone can see your after action reports and your medical records. If you don't like "unsubstatiated reports", then fight them by releasing the records.
"Acknowledging the veracity of the charges made before Congress of atrocities by Americans will likely not enamor Nam veterans to Kerry."
Yep, he explicitly endorsed the testimony. This should bet the ONLY question asked of Kerry in the coming weeks. Name names, dates and places where such atrocities occurred, or retract your treasonous statements!
story on Cambodia is getting crazier...now he has been there several times, and this guy is sticking with Christmas night again...
"Ok, let's switch to you, mr. Hurley. Senator kerry has repeatedly said he was sitting on a gunboat five miles inside cambodia on christmas eve 1968 being shot at while the president denied there were any U.S. Troops there. In 1986 senate speech, kerry had this to say --
>> Simple question, what proof do you have that john kerry was in cambodia on christmas eve 1968?
>> I think, chris, what what is seared in john kerry's mind is that he was under fire. On christmas eve, P.C.F. 44, john kerry was on patrol up near the cambodian border. They did come under fire that night. An old man was killed that night. They came under fire three times that night. It's a watery area. They were in that vicinity. I don't think anyone knows for sure, but they were near cambodia.
>> But he doesn't say near cambodia, he says it was seared in my memory that we were five miles inside cambodia on a specific night.
>> Right. He was five miles in cambodia -- but not that night. He was five miles on a different occasions. He was near cambodia on christmas eve. That's well-documented. They came under five three separate times that night. It's being under fire is what's seared in miss mind.
>> What proof do you have that kerry was inside cambodia?
>> John kerry's record.
>> Do you have a record?
>> No. They were in cambodia. They were delivering various supplies. They were in there. His crew will say the same thing.
>> Well, you say the crew, he's had crew members who have stood up and defended him on almost everything else. Do you have a single crew member who's come forward to say he was five miles inside cambodia?
>> This hasn't been an issue until really recently. Why we're revisiting where john kerry was on a single night in 1968 is beyond me. The same questions can be asked of president bush. Where was he when he was to be reporting for duty in alabama? John kerry acknowledges he was in cambodia. Where he was is not part of this discussion.
>> I take it then the answer is no, you don't vay single crew member who will say he was in five miles inside cambodia on christmas eve 1968 or any other night?
>> On other nights, yes. On december 24, they will not say that --
>> Who will say that?
>> It was the 94 boat. This issue hasn't come up. The reason why it hasn't been addressed. On christmas eve, he was on the 44 boat. They were near the cambodian border. They may or may not have crossed over. On a different occasion on the 94 boat, they were inside cambodia. The crew will testify to that.
Well I saw this wouldn't say anyone hit a home run, but the Vets for Kerry guy clearly dodged questions and engaged in spin when asked a few point blank questions.
SVBFT guy answered all questions straight. If there were any swing voters watching, this appearance did not help Kerry.
And Kerry also needs to be asked if has documents to back it up or just eyewitness accounts from 35 years ago.
longjack
I watched this interview. Chris' premise was to clear up questions. Does anyone think Chris cleared up any questions? I believe Odell did a good job but missed an opportunity to call for Kerry to release his records.
Documents? We don't need no stinkin' documents! (Unless, of course, they support Kerry)
I hadn't seen the Swifties say this, before. So the Wash Post diagram actually was accurate. Chenoweth was on the left, and Droz in the 43 was off on the right. Yet it was Droz that assisted Thurlow in stabilizing the 3 boat, after Thurlow got it stopped, and it was really taking on water. So Chenoweth in the 23 started fishing men out of the water, and spotted Rassman over on the right, while Droz sat on the right bank, and Thurlow went after the 3? So Droz stayed just near the gap on the right, and the 3, the 51 and 23 were through the gap on the left chasing the 3 and picking men up. Meanwhile, up ahead, Kerry had raced on dropping Rassman off the stern, perhaps, ahead of the 43? which didn't see that and move to pull him out? or had Thurlow gotten to the 3 and Droz abandoned the right bank to go assist, just missing seeing Rassman bob up for the 1st or second time?
The order of events following the explosion is still somewhat confusing.
Ooooh, Brit, My Kerry KneePads are too tight!"> BRIT just Biaaatch slapped Juan..."Read the Washington Post"...
PANEL CHAT BELOW!!---
TV Channel 12 Sun Aug 22 09:33:36 2004 ...and ceci connolly of the "washington post," bill kristol, editor of "the weekly standard" and juan williams, with national public radio. Welcome to all of you. Let's start with some new polls about the controversy over john kerry and his service in vietnam. There was a poll out this week that asked voters if they had seen or heard about the swift boat veterans tv commercial, 57% of the country, an amazing number, said they had. Only 41% said they had not. And when they asked those who had seen or heard about the ad, how believable did he find it? 46% said very or somewhat believable. 49% said not believable. Brit, the issue seemed to be gaining traction. The fact is john kerry had to fight back this week, didn't he?
>> I think so, in part because some of the major media had gun to weigh in. And the results were mixed, obviously. They found some things about the swit boat veterans version of events to be believable. "The washington post" has an exemplary store on parsing some of these events today. I think what we're now looking at from the kerry camp's point of view is whether his vietnam war record, on which he has placed such emphasis, including memorandummably at the democratic national convention, now becomes kerry's disputed war record. And if that's the case, of course, it damages, not destroys, but damages one of the pillars of his campaign.
>> Do you think it's now his disputed war record?
>> Oh, sure. The fact we're spending all this energy dissecting it, certainly there's a dispute now underway. The interesting thing is i think really more of the dispute has to do with his role when he returned home after vietnam, his testimony up here, his anti-war activities, and really when you go and talk to many of those swift boat veterans for truth, the group against kerry, many of them say that what got them involved in this campaign was really bitterness over that behavior and the accusations that he made when he got back.
>> But let's go back because with the fight, at least originally was about, was a question of was he a war hero? How did he perform in action? I mean, when you see all the evidence, there doesn't seem to be any documentary evidence, for the swift boat veterans?
>> Well, three of the four commanders that were with him on march 13 tell a different story. v >> There's not a single document to back them up.
>> No, there isn'T. The "post" story shows the evidence is in dispute. It also points out that john kerry has not made all records available. His accounts have been given to douglas brinkley and have not been available to anyone wholes would like to look into this. John kerry appealed to his band of brothers at the democratic national convention. Eight of them stood behind him as he accepted the no, ma'am nomination. It turns out this veterans who also served in coastal division 14 are entitled to say, we're also part of that band of brothers. And we want to correct the record of what john kerry says about these particular events in his acceptance speech and elsewhere. The other thing I would add is that the fact his claim to have been in cambodia has basically been retracted. I think it's hurt kerry. It's like any series of assertions. Once one of them turns out to be false others, which probably aren't as false, others get called into correction.
>> How have they corrected the record?
>> He was saying he was there on christmas eve. When someone says on more than one occasion this was seared in his memory. This was an event he described as being an indelible turning point in his thinking --
>> Bill was saying that this group has come forward to correct the record with respect to his service, the medals, etc. And I'm saying everything that we heard this morning, everything that we've seen so far, every document that's been produced, where does it somehow correct the record?
>> Well, john kerry made it seem as if he hero cli picked rassmann out of the water --
>> Jim rassmann would agree.
>> He owes his life to john kerry. The other four boats stayed there. Rassmann was going to be picked out of the water by one of the boats.
>> Wait a minute. Where is the evidence for that, bill?
>> Kerry's own account --
>> You have read the 1969 report? You have read the 1969 report?
>> Kerry's current account is that he went down river --
>> Kerry's own account is that his boat went down. Look at "the washington post" today. Kerry's boat went down river. The other three stayed there. Kerry then came back and picked rassmann out of the water. The cront verse si is whether they were under any fire at the time. That's a fact.
>> This is just so amazing to me. There is no dispute about john kerry. John kerry went to vietnam, chose to put himself in that swift boat. We've got a group of people who have accounts that change from day to day, from time to time, from situation to situation given whether or not they're happy or angry or whatever. When it turns out their own records were the basis for getting awards is released, it backs up john kerry's accounts of what occurred. In addition to which, if this was important -- let me just say this --
>> They are lying, bill.
>> Why are they lying?
>> It's obvious. They had motivation. I was just going to say --
>> Let him speak.
>> If this was a courtroom, this would have been flown out as ridiculous. If this was judge judy, they'd laugh at this stuff. Thesle are angry at john kerry about the fact he came back and was part of the anti-war movement in this country. They're very much bush supporters. Bob perry, all these people from texas are big bush supporters. They're putting money behind this. They're taking advantage of these men. This is a political conspiracy. In addition to which the co-author has slandered the pope, slanders muslims and yet somehow we give them all this attention and put them on network television.
>> BRIT--->Juan, i would suggest that you pick up this morning's "washington post," read the story on the front page end to end and think about your position again because if you don't think that there's a dispute about john kerry's war record, you and i are not living on the same planet.
>> You pick that one story out and say john kerry can't prove he was in cambodia. What "the washington post" story says is that kerry's boat was about 40 to 50 miles outside of cambodia, had the ability to get into cambodia. There is no evidence that he ever went into cambodia. But let's stop right there. That's what the record shows, brit.
>> Hold it a second, juan. We were just hearing that the official records all back up kerry. There's not a single official record that backs up that claim. So you start from there, you're already dealing with something that is, for all intents and purposes, been shown to be false.
>> No. It's not shown to be false.
>> I think the cambodia story is problematic for kerry, and we saw that earlier this morning when john hurley said, you know, what was seared in his memory was being there around that time period. It was very fuzzy. It was not nearly as precise as the claims that kerry's made in the past. But put that aside for one minute. Some of the facts that we know are that the man who received commendation on that same day that kerry did, in his citation as well as kerry's it refers to all boats taking enemy fire. And by the way, mr. Furlough's citation was written by a guy named lambert on his boat. What else do we know? We know that everyone on john kerry's swift boat as well as jim rassmann support his account, which is also shown in this citation for his medals. We also know that george elliott and the other gentleman that you showed this morning had -- and lonsdale stepped forward in 1996 to defend john kerry, not simply to say oh, no, he's not a war criminal. They went much further in their rhetoric and praise for him as being courageous.
>> We have to take a break here. The panel will be back in a moment.
Kerry lied about being under fire that day.
Its seven eyewitness accouns versus Kerry and somebody who was in the water.
They were on the scene for an over an hour.
No one else was wounded other than the soldiers that hit the mine.
No bullet holes and no wounded mean no fire.
There is no other possible conclusion.
I am getting pretty tired of Democrat sons of bitches trying to lie their way into the White House.
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