Posted on 08/19/2004 2:00:49 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
CNSNews.com) - A member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has alleged that John Kerry's own report 35 years ago was the basis for the military records that the Washington Post used in an article Thursday seeking to discredit the veteran, Larry Thurlow.
At issue is whether Thurlow, Kerry and others were subjected to hostile gunfire on Vietnam's Bay Hap River on March 13, 1969, as military records obtained by the Washington Post indicate.
Thurlow currently asserts that there was no gunfire, a contradiction of the military records cited in the Washington Post article. The Post was not able to show the source of the information for the military records.
Thurlow believes Kerry wrote the after-action reports that served as the basis for the military records, including the ones applying to Thurlow. He told CNSNews.com that Kerry routinely asked to write the reports, which, Thurlow said, exaggerate and falsify Kerry's actions. He said an examination of those reports reveals that Kerry was often portrayed as a hero, when that wasn't necessarily the case.
"In all honesty, knowing John wasn't reliable and wasn't trustworthy, I didn't expect him to do this," Thurlow said. "If he wanted to embellish his own account a little bit, I could even live with that because a lot of people are that way."
Both Thurlow and Kerry were awarded the Bronze Star medal for their actions on the Bay Hap River.
Kerry's own account is that during the Bay Hap River incident, he rescued another veteran, Jim Rassmann, while coming under fire from the Viet Cong. Rassmann backs up Kerry's version of events. But Thurlow said the awards, including his own, may have been inappropriately handed out as a result of a false report filed by Kerry.
"We were never under hostile fire," Thurlow told CNSNews.com as he recalled the events of March 13, 1969. "And if that's something that has to happen for me to get that Bronze Star, then I have had it all these years under false pretenses. I'll be happy to return the thing. I don't want the thing under fraudulent circumstances."
As reported by the Washington Post, the Navy award recommendation of March 23, 1969, indicated that Thurlow and Kerry had been subjected to "small arms and automatic weapons fire" along the Bay Hap River. Thursday's article in the Post used that statement, included in Thurlow's military records, to contradict Thurlow's current claim that there was no gunfire.
"The hostile fire is based entirely on [Kerry's] report," Thurlow said. "My contention, both then and now, is that there was no hostile fire."
Thurlow continued: "I had no clue, though, that he was building the centerpiece of his run for the presidency on it. There's no way I could have. Despite the fact he was known to have told several people that he was going to be president of the United States when he grew up, anybody could say that. John, it turns out, was very serious."
A spokeswoman for the Kerry campaign didn't immediately return CNSNews.com's request for comment. But Kerry denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, of which Thurlow is a member, during a speech Thursday.
"They're a front for the Bush campaign," Kerry said. "And the fact that the president won't denounce what they're up to tells you everything that you need to know - he wants them to do his dirty work."
When asked about the personal attacks he's endured since coming forward, Thurlow expressed disappointment. He said he merely wants to the truth about Kerry to be documented.
"What they're trying to do is discredit us," Thurlow said of the Kerry campaign. "If they can make anyone think we're not factual and not telling the truth, they've won that round."
If he could go back to Vietnam and do anything over again, he said he wouldn't have allowed Kerry to write the after-action reports.
"Back then, John would actually volunteer to write them up," Thurlow said. "He wouldn't be the officer in tactical command very often because he was fairly junior in the sense of who had been in country the longest.
"Nobody wanted to write these things," he added. "You're already drained from hours out on whatever the situation was. You wanted to clean up, get something to eat and get some sleep. John would say, 'I'll write this up.' [We'd say], 'Go for it, John.'
Proving that Kerry falsified reports is difficult, Thurlow acknowledged. He said higher-ranking commanders often gave a rubber-stamp signature to the reports because they trusted their officers to be honest.
"We accepted, whoever did it, to do it accurately," Thurlow said. "I myself expected him to do the right thing. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have even let him do it. But at that time, I was more than happy to let him do it. I know something now that I did not know then."
See Related Story:
Kerry Says Bush Letting Others Do His Dirty Work (Aug. 19, 2004)
E-mail a news tip to Robert B. Bluey.
Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.
What a psycho.
Somehow I don't think Christopher Shays does much to help the Republican cause, either.
Its interesting to think back about the early days of the Clinton campaign, the first time out, when whispers of his shenanigans started to surface. The sleight of hand that got him past the draft, for example, and the rumors of infidelity, and the rumors surrounding WhiteWater.
For those of us paying attention, all of that turned out to be the tip of the iceberg in terms of his personal failings, but also was a harbinger of his integrity and focus as President. Had we paid attention, we might have been spared a president who was prepared to sell military technology to the Chinese, and who was prepared to sit on his hands while our enemies leveled attack after attack at us.
Character matters, and a man who can't tell the truth when it doesn't matter isn't going to tell the truth when it does.
A guy who can't show up for intelligence briefings, speaking now of Kerry, is a guy who doesn't take these things seriously. We were saddled in the nineties with a president who couldn't be bothered to deal with national security issues. We don't need to go through that again.
Amazing how much Kerry sounded like Thurston Howell from Gilligan's Island speaking with the clenched molars.
One day, I watched my supervisor as he painfully pecked away on an old Remington, using one finger and a bottle of whiteout. I broke my own code and volunteered to do the typing for him, since watching him was driving me batty and I wasn't doing anything much anyway. Needless to say, the one act of volunteerism developed into a permanent assignment. I really didn't mind--it was better than painting stuff green. Bottom line--I could have put myself in for some serious commendations because I doubt if anyone ever really looked at what I had written. Perhaps a purple heart for that serious paper cut I got. Lost a lot of blood. I remember the date--it is seared, seared in my memory....
Kerry is a lying scumback who should NEVER be commander in Chief. The Dems know it too.
Poll: Voters Eyeing National Security - Number One Concern*** But Kerry has struggled with stating his position on Iraq, defending his vote authorizing the war while criticizing the Bush administration's conduct of the war and difficulties in postwar Iraq. Democrats say Kerry has a "nuanced position" and Republicans call the Democrat's position a series of flip-flops.***
Who apparently fell off that boat because the captain turned and fled so fast. This is getting good. Reminscient of the old campaigns of the early 1800's.
Kerry fled while good men bled!
I think the Kerry bomb throwers are out bigtime where books are sold and stores like Costco that carry all the political books being written this season. I called Barnes and Noble, a huge store in north Portland, Oregon and asked if they had the book, Unfit for Command, and I was told they were all sold out. "When will you have it in", I asked. Answer,"We haven't any idea. Would you like to go on the list". I refused but asked " Could you tell me how many books they ordered in this first printing?" Answer, "Twenty five." I couldn't believe my ears. Costco doesn't have the book yet, but may have it later. The week before Clinton's book came out, Costco literally had Clinton's book stacked seven feet high from the table. There must have been hundreds of copies for sale. I have never seen anything like that before, but we all know the Costco CEO is a big Democrat. THere are still a lot of copies for sale and you certainly can't miss that Clinton mug on the cover.
***smile***
Kerry wrote stories to gain undeserved glories.
If telling the truth is a condition for getting a book on the shelf there should be a WHOLE BUNCH of books pulled such as the Clinton's books!
What a "Lens-hungry" reprobate.
Another FReeper told me a similar story but put his name on the list. They called him THAT AFTERNOON and said his copy was waiting for him. A stall? I don't know. Get your name on the list and see.
Contempt.
here is where the actual signed paper copies of the post-action reports snould be:
http://www.history.navy.mil/ar/charlie/coastal12.htm
Naval Historical Center
805 Kidder Breese Street SE
Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-5060
Records of Coastal Division 12,
1967-1970
Historical Note
Costal Division Twelve was originally PCF Division 102. Its primary mission was to interdict ships from North Vietnam and prevent supply offloading in South Vietnam, with the secondary mission of providing gunfire support for ground troops.
PCF Division 102 deployed from Coronado, California, in December 1965 to Subic Bay, Philippines. Then it established a base of operations in DaNang, Vietnam, on 13 January 1966. Soon after, PCF Division 102 participated in Operation Market Time and was part of Task Group 115.1. It patrolled areas, between the DMZ and the southern I Corps boundary, using Swift Boats. On 1 January 1967, PCF Division 102 changed its name to Costal Division Twelve.
In 1967, Costal Division Twelve participated in these operations listed below:
Operation Market Time
Operation DeSoto
Operation Deckhouse VI
Operation Beacon Hill One
Operation Seahawk
Operation Boone
Operation Canyon
Operation Beau Diddley
Operation Beacon Star
Operation Beau Charger
Operation Bear Claw
Operation Bear Bite
Operation Beacon Torch
Operation Dragon Fire
Operation Ballistic Charge
Operation Beaver Cage
Operation Badger Tooth
Operation Fortress Ridge
In addition, Costal Division Twelve formed Costal Division Sixteen, which lasted from 20 June 1967 to 1 November 1967. The Division continued its participation in Operation Market Time through 1968.
The Division's last complete year of operations was 1969. During this year, it trained the Vietnamese for the eventual turnover of Costal Division Twelve to the South Vietnamese Navy. On 1 March 1970, Costal Division Twelve was to be primarily manned and controlled by the South Vietnamese. In the interim, it participated in several operations:
Operation Market Time
Operation Bold Mariner
Operation Sea Tiger
Operation Daring Rebel
Scope and Content Note
This collection is composed of post patrol reports and spot reports. Post patrol reports told of actions taken on individual patrols while spot reports summarized the division's actions on a particular day. In addition, post patrol reports were given to the division while spot reports were sent to the task group.
The collection is arranged in two series. Series I contains post patrol reports. It is arranged first by area patrolled and then by chronological order. Series II contains spot reports. It is arranged only by chronological order.
Preferred Citation
Records of Coastal Division 12, Operational Archives Branch, Naval Historical Center, Washington, D.C.
Subject Headings (LCSH)
United States. Navy. Coastal Division, 12th.
United States. Navy--Small boat service.
Vietnam Conflict, 1961-1975.
United States. Navy--History--Sources.
Extent
4.0 cubic feet
John O'Neill just said on Hannity's radio program "Those five boats were in a narrow creek (75 yards wide) for an hour and a half and none had bullet holes in them.
Lucky bastard... Hannity's show doesn't air live in Hawaii.
The only appropriate response to this from the Kerry campaign is an extreme fit of laughter
The Kerry campaign has told Salon that the publisher of "Unfit for Command," the book that is at the center of the attack on Kerry's military record by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, is retailing a hoax and should consider withdrawing it from bookstores. "No publisher should want to be selling a book with proven falsehoods in them, especially falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service of an American veteran," said Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton. "If I were them, I'd be ducking under my desk wondering what to do. This is a serious problem."
Then while wiping away the tears from one's eyes say, "And this is coming from Kerry? You know the guy - Kerry - who went before congress and the American people and told what could only be called "falsehoods that are meant to smear the military service of [more than] an American veteran, [but the American military as a whole]" .
Then you ask, "Man oh man, doesn't this Kerry know that the first thing you do when you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging?" And again burst into a gale of laughter.
It's time to humilate him with laughter.
RileyD, nwJ
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