Records Counter a Critic of Kerry

Washington Post ^ | 8/19/04 | Michael Dobbs

[Callahan]

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

[what's up]

I believe they will say the second was Kerry's. This (they will say) is why Rassman was thrown into the water (even tho we know it was because Kerry sped up to get out of there).

[Elkiejg]

The Post filed an independent request for the documents with the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, which is the central repository for veterans' records. The documents were faxed to The Post by officials at the records center yesterday.

Well then, why can't we all file a request for Kerry's records??

[fuzzy122]

I think I remember reading that he saw a granade on the ground that he thought was his and went to pick it up and it blew up.

This was after he was about to leave on a helo and at the last minute decided to stay and drink beer and play cards. Walking away from the helo he spotted the grenade and asumed it fell off of his gear. BOOM!

Glad I don't gamble or drink!

Stay Strong
Fuzzy I put together a page of info here about Kerry.

[Elkiejg]

http://www.archives.gov/facilities/mo/st_louis/military_personnel_records/standard_form_180.html#letter
National Personnel Records Center
(St. Louis, MO)

Write to The National Personnel Records Center
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, Missouri 63132

2. Write a Letter to Request Records

If you are not able to obtain SF-180 (Needs Kerry's signature), you may still submit a request for military records. Requests must contain enough information to identify the record among the more than 70 million on file at NPRC (MPR). Certain basic information is needed to locate military service records. This information includes:

The veteran's complete name used while in service
Service number or social security number
Branch of service
Dates of service
Date and place of birth may also be helpful, especially if the service number is not known
If the request pertains to a record that may have been involved in the 1973 fire, also include:
Place of discharge
Last unit of assignment
Place of entry into the service, if known.
Please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.

[fuzzy122]

Making a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) Request

These guidelines will help the Department of State respond to your request.

•	FOIA requests must be made in writing. There are no special forms needed for making a request.
•	You can submit your request by mail, fax, or through our electronic FOIA Request Aid

Fax - (202)261-8590
Address - Margaret P. Grafeld, Information & Privacy Coordinator
Office of Information Resources Management Programs and Services,
A/RPS/IPS, SA-2
Department of State
Washington, D.C.20522-6001
Re: Freedom of Information Act Request

•	Write "Freedom of Information Act Request" on the envelope or on the subject line of your fax.
•	Include a daytime telephone number in case we need to contact you.
•	To learn about Department of State records, go to:

•	FAM (Foreign Affairs Manual)
•	Department of State Records
•	Government Information Locator Service (GILS)
•	Government Printing Office's Privacy Act Issuances, 1995 Compilation

•	Describe the records you are seeking as clearly and precisely as you can. If your request is vague or too broad, we may ask you to be more specific, and this can delay the processing of your request (See 22CFR171.10(a))
•	State your willingness to pay the applicable fees or provide a justification to support a fee waiver (See 22CFR171.15 and Fee Structure).
•	For information about how the Department of State processes FOIA requests, refer to FAQs.
•	To understand the scope of the law, refer to Text of the 1996 FOIA.
•	To learn what types of records maintained by the Department of State may be exempted from disclosure under FOIA, go to 22 CFR 171, section 171.11.
•	Your appeal rights are discussed in Appealing a FOIA Decision.

OK. Here's where to start.

Stay Strong
Fuzzy I put together a page of info here about Kerry.

[RetSignman]

If the WP can apply for disclosure of records, using FOIA, why doesn't the Washington Times, or some other conservative publication, do the same thing for Kerry's records. I'll wait, but not hold my breath, for that one.

[The Wizard]

That is the blowback on this report: why only seeking swiftboat records....and not kerry's...

[The Wizard]

He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation.

[thelastvirgil]

That should be the first, most-obvious of questions. If all it takes is an FOIA request, we should have Kerry's military AND Intelligence Committee records forthwith. Waaaaiiittttiiinnnggg...

[stockpirate]

Larry Thurlow

It he amoung the SBV?

[Casloy]

Believe me, it was PURELY rhetorical.

[longfellow]

Thurlow said he would consider his award "fraudulent" if coming under enemy fire was the basis for it. "I am here to state that we weren't under fire," he said. He speculated that Kerry could have been the source of at least some of the language used in the citation.
Is this the beginning of his confession....is he trying to say neither one of them deserved the medal?

[RedEyeJack]

I think the Washington Post fell into a trap on this one... Your point on media bias is right on "millions to support Kerry but not a cent spent to inform the world of anything negative about him".

This should now be the topic of discussion, not Thurlow's record... turn about is fair play...

[DaveMSmith]

The Swifties have gone out on a limb. Now they're about to get nailed

O'Neill and company are prepared. Let Kerry give this his best shot. Any medium. He owns the MSM. Home field advantage!

Bring it on, John Kerry: JFK is about to be crucified.

[RedEyeJack]

Agree...

Answer is "If you want to know the truth with the Washington Post's spin... read the book. Decide for yourself!"

[SkyPilot]

Hrubec - Member since 19 August 2004.

Thanks for joing FR a few hours ago. By the way, how are the catered luncheons on the Kerry bus for the staffers like you? Any better than what Terezza and John-John order for themselves?

In response to your "backfire" comment--this sordid Lanny Davis tactic has only increased the necessity to get Kerry's records released--something he dares not do.

[CatoRenasci]

Welcome to FR, newbie.

Kerry's military records: You could go get them the same way Thurlows were gotten. freedom of information act. But don't bother. They've been released, and have been available for public viewing for months.

Your statement is simply not true. Selected portions of Kerry's records have been released, but he has not executed a form 180 that would permit all of his military records, including all medical records, to be viewed. Bush did sign a form 180 with respect to his records.

The SwiftVets have been asking Kerry to sign a form 180 for months now.

The only low blows concerning Kerry's war record have come from the ad hominem attacks by Kerry's surrogates, and their lawyers' attempts to prevent stations from running the SwiftVets ad.

We could expect the WaPo to put the most pro-Kerry spin on the information they have, and they surely have. In fact, in large part, this story supports the SwiftVets contention that Kerry's boat fled, unlike the others who stayed to help PCF-3. That could support a charge of cowardice in the face of the enemy if there really was enemy fire. Be careful what you wish for.

[mewzilla]

...this sordid Lanny Davis tactic has only increased the necessity to get Kerry's records released--something he dares not do.

Unless the ink has dried and/or Sandy Berger's paid a call or two on the DOD.

[Drammach]

The confusion was when the PCF3 hit the mine, SOP called for the other boats to open fire to the banks - which they did... there was no enemy return fire. It probably sounded like they were under attack. John Kerry, meanwhile, was running away.

My thoughts exactly..
glad I continued to read the thread rather than duplicate a remark already made..