Another little John Kerry Vietnam story. See if you can detect why it's another Kerry lie.

humaneusa.org ^ | 9/13/2004 | Jim Curtis

[Edit35]

In fact, I suggest we submit little VC the dog for a post-caninous medal for its outstanding bravery in the face of Kerry leadership.

[norton]

I'm real late on this but it just seems that Kerry is telling the same story twice.
Group of boats,
mine under one or another of them,
thrown overboard,
miraculous rescue....

As to Bronze Stars, I got mine because the Headquarters enlisted guys liked me...basically a Radar O'Reiley asks the colonel to sign 'some papers' deal. But without a "V".

And the "enemy" versus "supressive" fire. Odds are good that SOP was to assume an ambush and that there was ONLY fire from the Swifts. In that I can almost forgive Rassman, who would be otherwise occupied at the time and not have a clue where all the noise was coming from. But Kerry WOULD know and was apparently the only player in the scene to claim otherwise.

[Willie Green]

There was no dog?

VC was a hamster?

[TrueKnightGalahad]

"I'll give the answer later if no one guesses it."

Is it later yet?

[freeangel]

Did he mix up rassman with VC on Christmas eve in Cambodia after ir was seared into his heart?

[Jim_Curtis]

"I'll give the answer later if no one guesses it." Is it later yet?

I already gave the answer twice, here it is again: Let's assume the following to be true: Kerry's boat gets mined "hard". Dog gets catapulted into an adjacent boat. To believe Kerry's story, you would have to believe that the 2nd SWIFT boat was close enough to Kerry's boat that a dog was catapulted into it BUT that 2nd boat just kept on going down the river and didn't come to the aid of the SWIFT boat ( Kerry's ) THAT JUST GOT MINED HARD.

[G-Bob]

Thanks.

Something is not right with this. If Thurlow's citation mentions fire coming from the banks then this thing stinks. Either they overreached or they are making it up out of whole cloth.

[Jim_Curtis]

Should call you "Sideshow G-Bob". Maybe their report says G-Bob flew by in a jet ski. There must be something, other than wild speculation, that leads you to believe this. Do you think that Kerry's handlers handled the Thurlow citation and added a story to it so that Kerry's story would be safe? "What if" can be asked about anything to cast doubt on everything.

I have speculated myself that there might be some Kerry operatives planted to sow seeds of doubt or blackmail/payoff put forth for one of them to turn... just because there are so many signed on but even if that happens there is already a long and growing list of Kerry-specific fabrications that he and his media puppet masters will not be able to escape from by pointing fingers.

[sully777]

Welcome to G-Bob's world. G-Bob hails from sunny California, near Berkeley. He loves reading the SF Chronicle and left-wing blogs. G-Bob listens to Pacifica Radio and NPR. G-Bob also takes a keen interest in the Kurds, the Iraqi war, and has a special interest in John Kerry's SBV problem.

On this thread G-Bob starts at post 107 by asking an seemingly innocent question and says he's one of us but he's worried. Post 114 from Remington Rebel tells G-Bob to go research it himself. Posts 139, 151, 153: G-Bob makes an unsupported accusation into a fact. He insists that Thurlow will blow up in the SBV's faces. Post 156 and 161 becomes condescending.

Post 168 is funny, "Guys you're sounding like a bunch of liberals...the Swifties have to be purer than Caesar's wife..."

Post 172 was the best "I have NOT READ THE REPORTS."

But wait, there's more than one thread on the G-Bob Train:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1191093/posts?page=198#198 (Backlash of Kerry claims The Examiner Posted on 08/13/2004 1:28:51 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16)

To: NavySEAL F-16
Could someone please answer a Swift boat question for me? It's regarding the incident where Kerry received his bronze star and Rassman fell off the boat. What's the story on enemy fire?

I've seen on some lefty blogs that Thurlow also received a bronze star for his actions that day. Did his citation mention enemy fire?

I would greatly appreciate some info on what the story is here. If Thurlow's citation mentioned enemy fire and now they are claiming there was none I think that this is pretty bad. But if that's not the case please let me know. Thanks
151 posted on 08/13/2004 6:30:57 PM PDT by G-Bob

To: G-Bob
I've seen on some lefty blogs that Thurlow also received a bronze star for his actions that day.

I didn't mention Thurlow's name in my post to you.

I would take with a grain of salt if the only reference you have for Thurlow is from some lefty blog.
159 posted on 08/13/2004 7:32:39 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)

To: NavySEAL F-16
I would take with a grain of salt if the only reference you have for Thurlow is from some lefty blog.

I do, that's why I'm asking the question. But if Thurlow's Bronze Star citation mentions enemy fire it's not good and I would question what's going on here.
162 posted on 08/13/2004 8:14:12 PM PDT by G-Bob

---

Repeating G-Bob's answer, “I do [take an unsubstantiated accusation from a lefty blog seriously], that’s why I am asking the question..."

---

To: G-Bob

Here's some background on Thurlow.
BUCHANAN: All right, John, but, look, this raises a question. Why would this fellow, Thurlow and Jack Chenoweth and these fellows—and Jack Thurlow is apparently a real hero who grabbed that sinking boat, if you will, why did they sit still while Kerry goes and picks up all these medals?

O‘NEILL: Because—oh, they didn‘t know.
What actually happened, Pat, was they actually looked and they saw the advertisement even that Kerry had in January and February and they thought it was some other incident. It was so completely different than what they were involved in, they thought it had to be something else. When they learned that it was related to the incident where the 3 boat was mined, they were shocked. They were just sickened, because the things were portraying them as fleeing and they were the guys that stayed.
And it portrayed Kerry as the hero, when he was the guy that fled. It turned the world upside down. That‘s why they have all come forward one at a time, appeared on television and told their story. It‘s just the world turned upside down.

THURLOW: For one thing, I did not know that John had been put in for a Bronze Star, a Silver Star or, for that matter, a Purple Heart on that day. I did not see the after-action report, which, in fact, was written by John. And as the years went by, John was not running for the highest office in the free world.

I also ended up in the water that day during the rescue efforts on the 3-boat (ph). And my boat, the 51-boat (ph), came up, picked me up, business as usual. I got back on board, went about the business at hand.

I received no fire. But the thing I would like to ask is, we have five boats now, John's returning, and four boats basically dead in the water, working on the 3-boat (ph). If we were receiving fire off the bank, how come not one single boat received one bullet hole, nobody was hit, no sign of any rounds hitting the water while I was in it?


WOODRUFF: What about Mr. Rassmann's point that he thinks you're doing this for partisan purposes?

THURLOW: Well, this is not true because, the fact of the matter is, I have not been active in any political party since I got out of the service. In fact, I basically turned my back on politics because of my experience in the service.

WOODRUFF: But this -- you feel strongly enough about this to be out?

THURLOW: I certainly do. My point is, is that John Kerry, because of the actions he's taken, and then the fantastic stories he made up about this, when many people beside myself know this not to be true, negates him being the leader he claims to be. And I would hate to have him be the commander-in-chief over my grandchildren.

163 posted on 08/13/2004 8:53:00 PM PDT by NavySEAL F-16 (Proud to be a Reagan Republican)

---

[Repeating "THURLOW: For one thing, I did not know that John had been put in for a Bronze Star, a Silver Star or, for that matter, a Purple Heart on that day. I did not see the after-action report, which, in fact, was written by John." Notice this point that John Kerry wrote the after-action reports goes over G-Bob's head. Thurlow has no control over his award because HE WASN'T SEEKING AN AWARD, unlike Kerry. Whatever is written in Thurlow's citation was not written by Thurlow but probably by Kerry.]

---

To: NavySEAL F-16
That still doesn't answer my question.

I've read that too. And in that interview Thurlow says that they were receiving no enemy fire. “I received no fire. But the thing I would like to ask is, we have five boats now, John's returning, and four boats basically dead in the water, working on the 3-boat (ph). If we were receiving fire off the bank, how come not one single boat received one bullet hole, nobody was hit, no sign of any rounds hitting the water while I was in it?“

My question still is did Thurlow's citation for the Bronze Star that he was awarded for his actions that day, mention enemy fire?
169 posted on 08/13/2004 9:32:01 PM PDT by G-Bob

To: BIGLOOK
I'm not talking about Kerry, I'm talking about Thurlow.

Does his Bronze Star Citation mention enemy fire? If it does and he is now claiming there was no enemy fire then you can put a fork in this thing.

If Thurlow's citation mentions enemy fire, but he's telling the truth now, then he accepted an award under false pretenses. If there was enemy fire then he's lying now.

It's a big deal guys.
175 posted on 08/13/2004 9:58:23 PM PDT by G-Bob

To: NavySEAL F-16
It appears to me that the only answer you are looking for is the one that confirms your lefty sites. I hope I am wrong but my guess is you are rooting for Kerry.

I'm looking for the truth and to claim that this somehow makes me a Kerry supporter would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

I don't want to see this thing blow up in our faces. It's doesn't matter to me what Thurlow is saying now about enemy fire it matters to me what his Bronze Star citation said then, and it should matter to all of you too.
198 posted on 08/14/2004 4:49:51 PM PDT by G-Bob

---

Appears to me that G-Bob is subversively cleverl. There is no point to his accusations but the accusation itself is given the illusion of reality by virtue of G-Bob's assurance that his unfounded accusation is a grave matter.

[G-Bob]

If you spent as much time as you did trying to discredit me on trying to answer the question I put forth we might be getting somewhere.

I've been coming here since 1998 and I've been a member since 1999. The fact that I even have to raise this as a defense for the "sin" of raising a question about the particulars of Thurlow's Bronze Star citation doesn't give me a very good feeling.

If Thrulow's citation mentions no enemy fire, that's great, no one would be happier than me, but if it does, I'm not going to surrender my common sense and basic honesty just so that I can remain ideologically pure in yours or anyone's eyes.

[G-Bob]

There must be something, other than wild speculation, that leads you to believe this.

I don't know anything for a fact when it comes to Thurlow's Bronze Star citation. That's why I came here and to other places trying to find out some more details.

Unfortunately, I still haven't been able to find out any more information on just what the details are on Thurlow's citiation. I was hoping someone could help me out. I'm not making an accusation I'm just asking for more information.

[VOA]

"It turns out that at time, of course, Nixon wasn't president and the Khmer Rouge
weren't a fighting force. "

(repeat of previous posting on other threads)
I did some searching...and it looks like there were only about 2500-3000 Khmer Rouge
troop MAX at the time of "Christmas In Cambodia".
Maybe Kerry was sent because he was the only swift-boat commander with the
instincts of a Native American tracker that could find some Khmer Rouge at that time...


http://www.mekong.net/cambodia/banyan1.htm

The leftists in Cambodia had originally concentrated on a political struggle against
Sihanouk. By 1967, however, as it became clear that political opposition was
both futile and increasingly dangerous, the Cambodian communists began to focus
on armed struggle. They did not, however, constitute as serious threat to Sihanouk's
regime. Even as late as 1969, the communists -- or, as Sihanouk derisively called
them, the Khmer Rouge -- were estimated to have only about 2500 troops.



http://www.bartleby.com/65/kh/KhmerRou.html

The strength of the Khmer Rouge rose dramatically from around 3,000 in 1970 to more
than 30,000 in 1973, enabling most of the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong troops to withdraw.

[G-Bob]

Thurlow has no control over his award because HE WASN'T SEEKING AN AWARD, unlike Kerry.

Fine, and if you're telling me that Thurlow didn't write up the after action report that's good to, but if you're telling me that he had no knowledge of the details in his own his Bronze Star citation I'm dubious.

I'm not making a charge here I'm just asking a question. If there is a logical explaination I just wanted to hear it or have someone point me in the right direction for the info.

[Exton1]

After sharing the prior quote with my dog "Moosedog"....a tear formed in his bad eye. I explained that the story of VC was just pulp fiction. You mean "PUP" fiction

[R_Kangel]

So, I guess this VC critter must have been a deaf mute dog since Mr JFK and crew had to search frantically. I mean don't dogs make sounds like "Bark Bark" or something? I have a dog and he makes a sound kind of like that when he is trying to get my attention. This dog surely would have been whining or yelping at least if he was thrown in the water.

[rock58seg]

(......record? My guess is there is something really big in his past that he is happy no one is stumbling on while we harp away at something that doesn't even matter.....)

I think you are a wise person, and I agree with you. Is it something in his pre senate or senate days, all of which he glossed over. We think it's because of the liberality, but, is it something darker.

[Protect the Bill of Rights]

Re: Posts # 78 & 216

You may find this interesting. On another thread
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1191672/posts?page=33#33
we discussed Cal Thomas' interview with both John O'Neill and Hurley. Many thought it was a sucky interview. Several of us thought it as a good one. (I do not know if there is a rebroadcast on Sunday or in the wee hours of Monday morning, it might be worth your while to check listings)
In Posts 31 & 33 I made what I thought was an interesting observation.

Short version:
O'Neill and Hurley were debating. O'Neill presented facts. Hurley did the "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire" "Those Wascly Webulicans!!!" routine. Cal got in a good zinger about George Soros.

Cambodia came up. "It was late. It was dark. They were on the river. There are no 'Welcome to Cambodia Signs'." Hurley's affect changed ever so slightly, but change it did.

I thought it would be an Ah-Ha!!! moment, because Hurley was talking about Christmas (fired on from the banks story). Then he lamely added something about he WAS there in January.

-Maybe he had a brain fart & forgot what version to tell
-Maybe for the first time we saw a chink in the armor
-Maybe, as many believe, there is more shit to hit the fan.

As I said last night---Something made him sweat some major bullets. And O'Neill was grinning like the cat who swallowed the canary.
If there is something else, what could it be? It has to be something big. Could O'Neill know of something in those records that would make Kerry's candidacy DOA? Or could it be something else we are not aware of?

[NavySEAL F-16]

Fine, and if you're telling me that Thurlow didn't write up the after action report that's good to,

G-Bob, I told you that in Post #163 on August 13, Friday. Obviously, you don't read the posts, because you don't want anyone to take you off point.

THURLOW: For one thing, I did not know that John had been put in for a Bronze Star, a Silver Star or, for that matter, a Purple Heart on that day. I did not see the after-action report, which, in fact, was written by John.

Just another piece of information. Military men and women as a general rule, don't read their citations and commit each one to memory.

THURLOW IS NOT RUNNING FOR CINC, JOHN KERRY IS.

[WestTexasWend]

"Didn't the Cambodians eat dog?"

I vote for this one (but if a mine really went off under the boat I seriously doubt they'd have just "shaken it off").