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How long will the Oil Age last?
Popular Science ^ | August 2004. | Kevin Kelleher

Posted on 08/13/2004 10:47:51 AM PDT by spetznaz

Quick, how many years will it be before the world runs out of oil? Don't know? Join the club. Actually, choose one of several clubs, each of which vehemently disagrees with the others on how much usable crude is left on the earth. The question is far from an academic exercise: This year oil hit a near record-high $40 a barrel, and Royal Dutch/Shell Group downgraded its reserves by 4.5 billion barrels.

While consumers pay for perceived shortages at the pump, scientists and economists struggle to reach consensus over "proven oil reserves," or how much oil you can realistically mine before recovery costs outstrip profits. Economist Leonardo Maugeri of Italian energy company Eni fired up the debate this May with an essay in Science that accused the "oil doomsters" of crying wolf.

Chief among the pessimists is the Association for the Study of Peak Oil, a group of European scientists who estimate that maximum oil production around the globe will peak in 2008 as demand rises from developing economies such as China. "If you squeezed all the oil in Iraq into a single bottle, you could fill four glasses, with the world consuming one glass of oil each year," says physicist and ASPO president Kjell Aleklett. "We've consumed nine bottles since oil was discovered, and we have another 9 or 10 in the refrigerator. How many more are there? Some say five or six, but we say three."

Others believe, like Maugeri, that the number of glasses is virtually limitless......

(Excerpt) Read more at popsci.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gas; middleeast; oil; opec; peakoil; petroleum
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To: Remember_Salamis
The Fuel cell will start replacing the internatl combustion engine in the next 5 - 10 years, making fuel efficiency much much higher.

Apples and oranges. You can't directly compare the efficiencies of fuel cells and IC engines like that. When you look at the entire energy cycle, you find that fuel cells aren't better, just different. In the end, the energy still comes from oil.

Fuel Cells that DON'T run on hydrocarbons will be a reality in 20 years (Bush even talked about it his State of the Union Adress).

Hydrogen fuel cells have been around a long time. It's pretty basic chemistry, and all the hand waving about research is political theater for the scientifically ignorant.

Fuel Cell Generators for homes already exist, but nobody's really buying them yet. They'll proliferate too.

That's a joke. Fuel cells just store energy, they aren't a source of energy.

Hydrogen power plants? Yup, they're 20 - 30 years away.

If you are talking about fusion, you're wishing. Fusion is snake oil.

If you are talking about chemically burning hydrogen, well, you are either talking more snake oil or you are scientifically illiterate.

21 posted on 08/13/2004 11:27:52 AM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: RayChuang88

Do you honestly believe that the envirowackos wouldn't put up a fight?


22 posted on 08/13/2004 11:28:16 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
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To: Remember_Salamis

I am not sure I would agree with the 'hydrogen economy' future... you see hydrogen is really an awkward fuel to store and transport, takes up too much space. gasoline is so much easier.

but the trend is right: from coal to gasoline to lighter high density energy, to ...

the ELECTRON is the real end of the rainbow.

I think we could go more to a Nuclear + electric economy, with fossil fuels in 50 mpg vehicles for part of transportation solution and electric vehicles taking up the slack.

In that scenario, our oil consumption could fall by 3/4s. meaning we could be self-sufficient in oil again if we drilled off Cali and in ANWR.

very high density batteries and induction-based charging on roadbeds is at least as realistic as cheap fuel cells (fuel cell and batteries are similar technologies anyway).


23 posted on 08/13/2004 11:31:46 AM PDT by WOSG (George W Bush - Right for our Times!)
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To: RightWhale
Which makes the claim of 40 years to commercial hydrogen fusion power = when we get to the end of the rainbow

We'll have fusion power 10 or 15 years after we get serious about it...which is to say, you're an optimist.

24 posted on 08/13/2004 11:33:55 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: hopespringseternal

The best way to make hydrogen would be nuclear (fission) power plants that create hydrogen as a 'side production' to generating electricity.

This would be a fossil-fuel free energy cycle.

but the REAL problem is our true promising non-fossil-fuel energy source - NUCLEAR - is the same energy source the enviro-whackos just hate.

thanks to them, we are more dependent on fossil fuels than we should be.


25 posted on 08/13/2004 11:34:37 AM PDT by WOSG (George W Bush - Right for our Times!)
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To: spetznaz
At $30 a barrel shale oil becomes profitable which means known reserves are many times previous known reserves. We aren't going to run out anytime soon, and since technological advances increase fuel efficiency and make previously unprofitable sources of energy profitable, it is unlikely we will EVER run out completely. A better question is how much will oil cost in the future, and at what point will alternative sources of energy become economical. I suspect it is still many years in the future.

Doomsayers have been wrong 100% of the time. People who once believed the world was doomed to another ice age now believe in global warming. People who once believed that the world was going to run out of food due to overpopulation are now worried about underpopulation. Not sure why anyone listens to them anymore?
26 posted on 08/13/2004 11:45:24 AM PDT by monday
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
"Production costs are $11- $15 bbl."

Are you talking about raw "tar" or synthetic crude?

27 posted on 08/13/2004 11:55:26 AM PDT by Boss_Jim_Gettys (This tagline has been removed under threat of legal action by the DNC and Kerry-Edwards campaign.)
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To: RayChuang88

Cool, add the algee farms to the windmills in Texas, Nebraska, and N Dakota and we can provide all the energy this whole country needs for as long as the sun lasts or until the Lord returns.


28 posted on 08/13/2004 11:58:46 AM PDT by biblewonk (And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.)
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To: Boss_Jim_Gettys

Finished crude in the pipe, leaving Alberta.


29 posted on 08/13/2004 12:06:54 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: monday

I think the $30 figure for oil shale is a little old. I saw that figure in 1980 or so. The waste material (processed shale) is also a problem... It becomes 33 percent larger after the oil is harvested.


30 posted on 08/13/2004 12:09:41 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: spetznaz
Meathead said in 1974 that we were going to run completely out of oil by 1981, and I'll be damned if I'm going to question him.

BITS

31 posted on 08/13/2004 12:20:31 PM PDT by Believe_In_The_Singularity
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To: spetznaz

Given the fact that, for all intents and purposes, any real geophysical prospecting for new finds stopped in second order oil producing areas (such as the US) during the 1980s, due to the inexpensive overseas sources and green whacko regs here, it would take quite a while to know the answer.


32 posted on 08/13/2004 12:42:58 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Right makes right!)
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To: Remember_Salamis

Then there are diesels which can burn veg' oil.


33 posted on 08/13/2004 12:44:42 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Right makes right!)
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To: joesnuffy

I've been thinking of a 6.6 L 4 X .... ;)


34 posted on 08/13/2004 12:46:33 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Right makes right!)
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To: WOSG
"...it also means that coal gasification (and 300 years supply of energy from that) is a possibility (although that is economical only at higher costs for oil).

I am certain that direct coal liquefaction would be economical with crude at $45/bbl.

35 posted on 08/13/2004 12:48:37 PM PDT by Boss_Jim_Gettys (This tagline has been removed under threat of legal action by the DNC and Kerry-Edwards campaign.)
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To: spetznaz

I see lots of talk about oil as an energy source, but what about oil as a raw material? To my mind, that's the real dilemma posed by dwindling petroleum supplies.


36 posted on 08/13/2004 12:55:00 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham ("This house is sho' gone crazy!")
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To: spetznaz

I believe that we will continue to use a kind of gasoline for transportation fuel for centuries - very simply, there is no way to store combustible fuel with the same combination of low cost, high energy density, relative safety, and ease of transportation and use. So what about "peak oil", and the end of cheap oil? Well, when the natural supplies run low, we will make more.

What about hydrogen as fuel? The fact is that gasoline is one of the most compact and convenient ways to store hydrogen that exists. Octane - the major component - is almost 16% hydrogen by weight, while water (we have oceans full of hydrogen!) is only about 11%. And hydrogen can be extracted from gasoline in an EXOTHERMIC reaction, without requiring external power except to get it started, unlike water.

Yes, it will be more expensive. It might even approach the cost of drinking water, but we will pay the price, because it works so well. I think that we will make some changes to accommodate the higher cost. "Pure" hybrids will become the standard transportation vehicle. They already have displaced all other power sources for one of our most important commercial transportation systems, the railroads. The idea that tiny, cramped cars with hybrid drives are something brand new is laughable when you think about how long the diesel locomotive has been around.

And this would enable another innovation that would drastically reduce our need for liquid transportation fuels.

Imagine city streets - and major intercity routes - equipped with some kind of spot charging facilities that could transmit power to these electric cars, enabling them to shut off their on-board generation facilities and operating pollution free. No, I don't think we know how to do this yet, except for 3rd rail and trolley systems, but I think it could happen with research. And if so, you would be free to drive wherever you wish, using the transportation grid or your on board generator and motor fuel as necessary based on availability.

The power grid would require expansion, but not need a great deal of extra capacity to drive our entire transportation system.

So that's my idea - does anyone have a better one?


37 posted on 08/13/2004 1:12:11 PM PDT by MainFrame65
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To: spetznaz
My estimate is July 23, 2502, around 4:15 in the afternoon.
Do I win a prize?
38 posted on 08/13/2004 1:17:18 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
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To: spetznaz
I know this is going to sound VERY stupid but here goes....

In order to believe that Oil comes from decayed animal life (fossil fuel) I have to believe that a COLOSSAL amount of animals died in just certain places on earth!!

Why can't oil be produced by SAND because from what I see, SAND is the common denominator as to where oil is discovered....under the sea...in the desert. Is it POSSIBLE that "fossil fuel" is a misnomer? FLAME AWAY!!!!

39 posted on 08/13/2004 1:25:57 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: WOSG
Where did you get the figures on when tar sands, etc. will become economically viable as the price of a barrel of crude goes up?

I'm very interested in this. I remember back in the 70's that people started talking about tar sands and oil shale when OPEC first started controlling production. I haven't heard about either much since oil prices collapsed.

40 posted on 08/13/2004 1:27:07 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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