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If Bush wants to fulfil sceptical liberal predictions of “another Vietnam” then he should continue doing what he is doing. This seems to be the cycle: Insurgents cause violence. US assaults insurgents. Insurgents take losses and call cease fire. Insurgents regroup and rearm. Insurgents cause violence. Al-Sadr will never be a decent human being. There is no reason for negotiations. Everytime we assault and stop, more Marine dies and it kills moral. NOTE TO BUSH: STOP PLAYING POLITICS WITH MARINES LIVES. For a President who defined sceptics to invade Iraq (rightfully) he certainly has taken a back step, overly worrying about Muslim sensitivities.

I still like him, and he is doing a better job than Kerry would, but come on already… how many chances will we give Sadr, when he does deserve any?

1 posted on 08/13/2004 3:49:59 AM PDT by Barney Gumble
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To: Barney Gumble

I can't believe we are doing this again...


2 posted on 08/13/2004 3:51:11 AM PDT by Dog ( Attention: Everyone check their briefcase for their "magic" secret agent hat... That is all.)
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To: Barney Gumble

Wish you wouldn't use that name in the title that way.


3 posted on 08/13/2004 3:52:54 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Barney Gumble

This article should be posted in Breaking News.

In an earlier article, posted today, a Mehdi militia official was interviewed in the HQ, and he said then that negotiations were ongoing all day, with an eye to a withdrawl and regrouping.


4 posted on 08/13/2004 3:53:55 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: Barney Gumble

Watch the sacrilige in the title. Ruins the whole thread.


5 posted on 08/13/2004 3:54:58 AM PDT by HawkeyeLonewolf (Christian First, American Second)
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To: All

Allawi, time to step up to the plate. Are you going to lead Iraq? Let your troops go in there and extract the treasonous cleric. After the fighting is done, make a generous gift to the shrine and invite moderate clerics to oversee the reconstruction of anything broken.

It was never the intent of the shrine for it to harbor killers. These criminals have killed Iraqi's of the very branch of the faith to which the shrine is holy. Their declared goals and their methods have nothing in common, and their lie must be exposed. Storm the shrine! Take prisoners and kill any who resist! Restore the shrine to its sanctified purpose! Try the men as criminals under your law, and bring peace to your troubled country.

Just hurry up and do it, and get it over with!


7 posted on 08/13/2004 3:55:12 AM PDT by coconutt2000
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To: Barney Gumble
Oh yee of little faith.

This cessation of offensive actions is to give cover to the deployment of Iraqi forces to press the attack into the final "holy" sites.

8 posted on 08/13/2004 3:56:17 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Barney Gumble

You'd think we'd be smarter after watching the palis employ these same tactics on Israel for so many years.


9 posted on 08/13/2004 3:56:30 AM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: Barney Gumble
Again people, you are not there.

You can do all the armchair quarterbacking you want, but I will trust our military. They know what they are doing, IMO.

11 posted on 08/13/2004 3:57:15 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Barney Gumble
I still like him, and he is doing a better job than Kerry would, but come on already… how many chances will we give Sadr, when he does deserve any?

As the expert behind the keyboard pontificates.

12 posted on 08/13/2004 3:59:47 AM PDT by Dane (Trial lawyers are the tapeworms to wealth creating society)
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To: Barney Gumble
IMO you can bet politics has nothing to do with it, and George W

is not even directly involved in when they start or stop.

I would even go so far as to say the generals on the ground

who make the decision to stop, do so with intelligence

you nor I have and as such prevent more American deaths.

Take a breath.

14 posted on 08/13/2004 4:02:18 AM PDT by DainBramage
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To: Barney Gumble
Well, we turned over sovereignty to the Iraqis. What did we expect?

I'm guessing that foremost in Allawi's mind were all the potential Shiite voters we were killing in Najaf.

16 posted on 08/13/2004 4:06:48 AM PDT by snopercod (Has anybody noticed that Iraq is using Saddam's "God is Great" flag again?)
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To: Barney Gumble

One thing I've noticed about Bush is that he's willing to do the right thing and let others do the right thing, no matter what the political fallout.

If we went full bore, they'd say he was doing it for political reasons.

We stop, and some say he's doing it for political reasons.

He's doing it for the right reasons, political hay be darned.


17 posted on 08/13/2004 4:06:58 AM PDT by HawkeyeLonewolf (Christian First, American Second)
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To: Barney Gumble

EXACTLY.

This crap reads like a replay of Viet Nam.

You'd think these people won the war, not us.


19 posted on 08/13/2004 4:09:44 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: Barney Gumble; Diogenesis; StriperSniper; Mo1; Howlin
Is it just me or does his hands look like they're tied behind his back?

EDS NOTE GRAPHIC CONTENT -- Iraqi civilians look at the body of an Iraqi national guardsman killed by insurgents and left in the street of the Sadr city neighbourhood of Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites) Friday Aug. 13, 2004. Clashes in the Baghdad Shiite slum of Sadr City killed three Iraqis and wounded 33 others, health officials said.

26 posted on 08/13/2004 4:20:13 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: Barney Gumble
This seems to be the cycle: Insurgents cause violence. US assaults insurgents. Insurgents take losses and call cease fire. Insurgents regroup and rearm. Insurgents cause violence.

I don't know about that. It seems to me that every time we stop and "let them regroup", the circle they are regrouping to is much smaller than the where they started from. There is no place for them to hide anymore. Laying Siege to the militants (read as enemy of the Iraqi People), is a time honored tradition in the military. Saves ammo, and save the lives of our soldiers.

27 posted on 08/13/2004 4:20:20 AM PDT by Core_Conservative (Screw ‘moderates.’ Only things found in the middle of the road are yellow lines and road kill!)
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To: Barney Gumble

I'll refrain from making any comments about W, because I don't think he's involved in the day-to-day ground operations, as the generals there are.

I hope there's a method to this start-and-stop madness, as each time it happens, we take more and more casualties. I'm hoping the Iraqi Army is getting into place and will soon finish off the Sadr scum's band of murderers from Iran and elsewhere.

Time will tell.


28 posted on 08/13/2004 4:21:02 AM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm (• Veni • Vidi • Vino • Visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: Barney Gumble

You have to remember that we turned over command to the Iraqi Governing council. In effect, our military takes their orders from the Iraqi's now. Bush has nothing to do with it.


30 posted on 08/13/2004 4:23:54 AM PDT by chuknospam
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To: Barney Gumble
... and the Imam Ali shrine, one of the holiest sites to Shiite Muslims

How many "holiest" sites/shrines do they have?
41 posted on 08/13/2004 4:37:18 AM PDT by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: Barney Gumble
Hey look! Here's BarneyGumble!


43 posted on 08/13/2004 4:39:13 AM PDT by HawkeyeLonewolf (Christian First, American Second)
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To: Barney Gumble
“He who fights and runs away, lives to fight ANOTHER day!”

Two words: Tora-Bora and Falujah.

If the government of Iraq does not have the political will to eliminate Al Sader, but instead once again allows him and his band of merry men to escape, retreat, receive immunity, or in anyway get away because President Bush wants to fight a P.C. engagement and will not allow the Marines to do what needs to be done in order to deal with this petty thug once and for all (i.e. KILL HIM and his army) then we have lost, this war is over and the troops should come home. We should not be fighting for a people unwilling to fight for themselves, or do what is necessary in order to protect their very existence.

If the Iraqis’ do not possess the political will to crush this threat to their very survival as a nation, then what is happening in Najaf will be repeated over and over again until the Islamic fascists take down the government and replace it with an Islamic fascist state.

This is a watershed event, it is make or break time for President Bush and Iraq!

If he fails to deal with this now, then in all likely hood President Bush is going to lose the election because we cannot win IF we are forced to fight a P.C. war. It is impossible because history has consistently shown that people and nations that fight “sensitive” P.C. wars ALWAYS lose them.

This mosque is not a “holy place” it is a fortress, stocked with weapons and filled with thugs and killers who are bent on killing Americans and destroying the Iraqi government and enslaving the people under Islamic masters and Islamic law. The only way to deal with the situation is to go in and kill or capture them all, not negotiate! The bad guys have us over a P.C. barrel, they KNOW that we are not willing to go in and get them so they have a safe haven and sanctuary and unless we have some way of killing them without touching their “sacred” “holy place” (sarcasm off) then they wait us out, restock, re-supply their “holy place” of death and fight on until they win.

The more time that goes buy in this stalemate the stronger they become because of outside pressure from our supposed “allies” = “Don’t hurt those poor mean-nasty Islamic terrorists, it is against “international law” and the so-called “Arab street,” you know, those “wonderful” Islamic multitudes who want to destroy our civilization, convert us to Islam, enslave us or saw off our heads. Flaujah is the ultimate example; if we let them off the hook, they will only become stronger and stronger until they win.

I believe with all my heart that what is happening right now in Iraq is a watershed, make or break event and what President Bush does there will determine the outcome of the election. If he does not act, decisively, no matter what the polls, our so-called “allies” and political pundents say, then the masses will fall under the sway of Kerrys’ more sensitive, “get us out of Iraq now” policy and he will win the election.

I am not being a pessimist but a realist. Americans want us to fight this thing to win it. If, the president, because of political correctness is not willing to do what needs to be done, i.e. KILL THEM, then he will lose and it is time to pick up our marbles, come home, fortify our own little “island America” and wait for the Islamic hordes to inevitably attack us from within and from without (something they are actively preparing to do). The mosques here in the USA are, like the mosque in Najaf also serving as fortresses and safe-havens where Islamic terrorists and insurgents are filling their people with hatred and training with impunity. If Kerry is elected, our government will not enter these “holy places” because it is “insensitive” to do so.

It is now up to President Bush and the decision he makes regarding Al Sader and the insurgents. This decision will determine the outcome of the war in Iraq and the election at home and all of the Republican conventions, political slogans, balloons in the world will not matter, only the flickering TV images of Al Saddar defiantly thumbing his nose at America, killing our men and continuing to overthrow the government in Iraq will!

I, and millions of others are praying that the President will do what is right, not what is “politically correct” or convenient.

50 posted on 08/13/2004 4:45:03 AM PDT by Jmouse007 (Call me when they recind the PC war)
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