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Threat Matrix: Daily Terror Threat - Thread SEVENTEEN
World Net Daily ^ | 8-10-04 | Paul Sperry

Posted on 08/10/2004 12:58:27 AM PDT by JustPiper

Credit: The Cabal

The title refers to a daily report given to the president of the United States detailing the most serious terrorist threats against the country. To tackle those threats, the government has formed a top-notch task force to infiltrate the terror cells and cut off the danger.

"Every morning, the president receives a list of the top ten terrorist threats - this list is known as the threat matrix."

We here at FR are trying to be in conjunction with the daily reports around the world that involve threats. We try to provide a storehouse of information that takes hours of research.

YOU be the Judge and get informed.

"I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat."

Link to Thread Sixteen

With the nation on high alert for al-Qaida terrorists, the Department of Homeland Security is putting its border officers through "etiquette" classes to soften their image and make them less threatening to arriving foreign immigrants, WorldNetDaily has learned.

"God could not be everywhere and therefore he made mothers."
-- Jewish proverb

We are the "Stotters" who make ourselves aware of the
enemy who wishes to do us harm.

"What good are the color codes at all if we are suddenly hit with a bio or chem attack? There would be no warning and the danger would be instant."

"Code Red Implications
Code Red - Stay Home and Await Word."
by MamaDearest

Meet It!
Greet It!
Defeat It!

TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: storehouseofinfo; terror; threatmatrix; threats
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"Threat Matrix is a politically incorrect zone"
From TM'er and Freeper ~Oorang~

“No arsenal or no weapon in the arsenals of the world is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women.”

Report it!
((click banners to report anything suspicious))

"Profiling" is just another way to say, "using common sense
and good judgement."
From TM'er and Freeper ~Judith Anne~

You try to thrust into hell Satan and all the evil sprits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. It is not in our nature to be the "Game."


Recommended Reading

Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror
by Anonymous

Terrorist Hunter : The Extraordinary Story of a Woman Who Went Undercover to Infiltrate the Radical Islamic Groups Operating in America
by Anonymous

Sleeping With the Devil: How Washington Sold Our Soul for Saudi Crude
by Robert Baer

Target America & the West: Terrorism Today
by Yossef Bodansky

The First Terrorist Act
by Harold Thomas Beck

First Strike : TWA Flight 800 and the Attack on America
by Jack Cashill, James Sanders

The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing
by Jayna Davis

American Jihad
by Steve Emerson

Memorial Day
by Vince Flynn

By Dawn's Early Light
by David Hagberg

Joshua's Hammer
by David Hagberg

The Kill Zone
by David Hagberg

Saddam's Bombmaker: The Terrifying Inside Story of the Iraqi Nuclear and Biological Weapons Agenda
by Khidhir Hamza, Jeff Stein

Al-Qaida's Jihad in Europe : The Afghan-Bosnian Network
by Evan F. Kohlmann

1000 Years for Revenge: International Terrorism and the FBI--the Untold Story
by Peter Lance

Unrestricted Warfare: China's Master Plan to Destroy America
by Qiao Liang, Wang Xiangsui

The Cell: Inside the 9/11 Plot, And Why the FBI and CIA Failed to Stop It
by John Miller, Michael Stone

Losing Bin Laden: How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror
by Richard Miniter

The 9/11 Commission Report: Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
by National Commission on Terrorist Attacks (free online PDF)

The Cobra Event
by Richard Preston

The New Jackals: Ramzi Yousef, Osama Bin Laden, and the Future of Terrorism
by Simon Reeve

The Last Jihad
by Joel C. Rosenberg

State of the Union
by Brad Thor

Prophet of Doom
by Craig Winn (free online version)

Tea With Terrorists
by Craig Winn (free online version)

May God bless a sovereign Iraq.
May God bless the coalition forces.
May God bless our U.S. forces.
May God bless President George W. Bush.
May God bless America!

From TM'r and Freeper ~Velveeta~

1 posted on 08/10/2004 12:58:27 AM PDT by JustPiper
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Please pay close attention:

First and foremost I want to apologize to the moderators for what they experienced on Thread 14. We will do our best to make sure this does not repeat itself EVER!

This is what it is TM'rs. We all know we are guests in Jim's 'home' and with that comes consideration and respect.

There will be NO bashing any mods, it will be taken private or there will be NO MORE Threat Matrix !!! That comes from the top!

Please everyone here review the following rules, they are not posted just for fun, they must be adhered to!

Do lead by example - Nothing improves a forum more than posters who reason sharply, write well, and have some perspective about it all. Be one of them.

Do preview - Preview twice, post once. And, ahem, close your HTML tags before you hit the reply button.

Do keep it clean - A bruise or two between Freepers is tolerable, but refrain from abusive attacks, engaging in senseless flame wars, and using profane language. Considering the range of topics we discuss, it's hard to be a family site, but that's what we aim for when at all possible.

Do "take it to the Alley" - The Alley is a public chat room. A link to it is provided on the latest posts page. Invite people there if you want to talk things over or settle a score, so to speak, off site.

Do use common sense - If you read a post that sounds too good or strange to be true, it probably is.

Do stay on topic
FR has varied topics for whatever you need to say

Do keep "vanity" posts to a minimum - Free Republic is primarily a place to discuss news, articles, and editorials. Vanity posts, creations of the poster him or herself, should meet a high standard of quality before one is even considered worthy of posting.

Don't jump threads - If you get involved in an argument in one thread, it's considered poor manners to restart the previous argument in the middle of an unrelated thread.

Don't play games - Don't represent yourself as another person, create or use another screen name to avoid a revocation of posting privileges, misrepresent the site or your role in it

I cannot stress the following enough:
{{{Don't be a whiner - If you really, really find Free Republic or Threat Matrix not to your liking, let the webmaster know directly (, learn to live with it, or move along.}}}

2 posted on 08/10/2004 12:59:33 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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Things to Look Out For: Be Observant:

Multiple sightings of the same suspicious person, vehicle or activity at the same location;

Individuals or activities that don't "fit" into the surrounding environment;

Individuals sitting in a parked vehicle for an extended period of time;

Individuals or several people sketching or taking notes, photographing or videotaping areas or buildings not normally associated with tourist activity;

Clothing out of place for the weather, such as someone wearing a heavy coat in hot weather;

Individuals or people carrying unusually heavy bags or backpacks;

Vehicles -- especially vans, U-Hauls or delivery trucks -- improperly parked or parked in locations not normally associated with deliveries;

Follow your instinct. If something doesn't look right, it might not be.

by TM'r WestCoastGal AKA CoCo

Suppose a cadre of sleeper cell members chose to open fire (automatic weapons) on any given US city (take over a major building, etc.). Other than SWAT teams, how prepared are our law enforcement personnel to deal with such a scenario. When they have to account for every bullet shot,
how experienced would they be defending us from people intent on killing every American they see and at the end commiting suicide. Are we truly prepared for that type of scenario?

We are all so very vulnerable when we go to restaurants, malls, and big box stores. If memory serves me right, they planned to "surprise" us.

Wouldn't it be a lot better if our restaurant owners, mall personnel and big box store personnel were trained for just such a situation?

For that matter, when you go into a restaurant, mall or big box store, do you note the nearest entrace/exit. If gunfire broke out, what would you do (expecially if you had children or grandchildren in tow)? Time to think about the possibilities......because you can bet THEY are!

by TM'r MamaDearest

What to keep in mind in NYC:

Even if it means walking a few blocks out of your way, I would suggest staying away from especially crowded corners where pedestrian gridlock occurs, e.g. 34th Street, Times Square, Rockefeller Center. I would wear sneakers in case you have to run. Make sure you have cash in case ATM goes down due to power failure. Carry a small flashlight, bottle of water and snack and a portable radio. Even if you're just stepping out of your building for a lunch break, carry your bag, phone and belongings just in case something happens while you're out. My experience during last summer's blackout: they wouldn't let you back
upstairs for anything.

by TM'r freeperfromnj


I always carry in my back pack, along with other things, a "North" brand half face mask with at least 2 "P100" filters fitted, and 2 spares in case the first set gets clogged:

Also a pair of swimmers goggles to protect my eyes and a couple cotton balls and ear plugs to keep stuff out of my ears. A little water and a snack.

by TM'r Imperialist

If you have a camera, take it with you in the car or wherever. You never know when you may want it.

by TM'r Snowy

3 posted on 08/10/2004 1:00:35 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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For your information, the Internet Tip Line (ITL)
was created on 9/11/01, in response to the
terrorist attacks upon America. We quickly
established a mechanism for the public to submit
information to the FBI via the Internet, and we
received our first tip at 10:31 AM that first day.
Director Mueller has since made the ITL a
permanent part of FBI operations, and we have thus
far received over 900,000 tips from around the
globe, from which thousands of leads have been
sent to FBI Field and Legal Attaché Offices for

Initially, almost 100% of the tips received were
related to the terrorist attacks; now,
approximately 45% of all tips received are related
to almost every other FBI criminal program, e.g.,
drug trafficking, organized crime, money
laundering, pyramid schemes, child pornography,
fugitives, bank robbery.

Our operation is completely automated and
paperless. Submitted tips are received
immediately, reviewed within minutes and
prioritized by trained Professional Support
personnel, and Agents set action leads within the
hour, as appropriate.

We encourage you to share this information with
your family, friends, and co-workers, and
encourage them to not hesitate to submit
information they may deem of interest to the FBI.


The FBI does not maintain an email address to
submit information or attachments to directly;
therefore, please do not reply directly to this
message via your email client. The FBI maintains
an automated system that is designed to track all
information received, to ensure that all tips are
addressed in a timely and efficient manner.
Therefore, please visit the FBI.GOV Web site again
should you have occasion to submit additional
information. We WILL NOT open or respond to
"reply" email.

4 posted on 08/10/2004 1:01:28 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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Terror alerts and you

5 Tips: Dealing with terror alerts

What does it mean for investors and the nation's financial markets? Here are today's five tips.

1. Don't panic.

While the explosion of a car or truck bomb at one of the nation's financial institutions would be a tragedy, it would not stop the nation's financial markets.

After 9/11, these institutions developed backup systems that would take over in the event of a terrorist attack allowing customers to cash checks and take out money from ATMs. The New York Stock Exchange has said that it can continue to oversee stock trading even if its famous trading floor was out of commission because of a contingency trading floor and backup computer systems.

Communications systems between banks and federal regulators were also upgraded. And practice drills testing the backup systems in the event of a terrorist attack have been conducted.

In addition, the financial industry is less concentrated today than it was three years ago. After the World Trade Center disaster, many of the nation's leading brokerages and banks moved offices from Manhattan's southern tip to other parts of the city and even other states.

The result is that a single attack in the city's traditional financial district would impact fewer institutions and customers.

2. Resist the urge to sell.

When the markets finally opened after the September 11th attacks, the Dow, Nasdaq and S&P 500 fell sharply. The Dow plunged 685 points, the Nasdaq dropped 116 points, and the S&P 500 sank 54 points. Anxiety about a similar situation might lead some investors to consider unloading their investments.

It's natural to worry about the effect an attack could have on an individual's retirement or education savings. But any strategy you make out of fear -- whether putting all your money in gold coins or stashing it in your mattress -- is a fool's game.

Many analysts predicted a sell-off in today's trading. Instead, the markets have shown remarkable resilience. Let's face it, no one knows whether an attack will occur. You could easily do more damage to your portfolio unloading your stocks and bonds without thought to what price you're being forced to sell at.

Likewise, it doesn't make much sense to try to play today's fear by buying the stocks of defense or security companies. You're better off making investments you're comfortable with for the long haul, rather than trying to score a quick gain playing market fears.

3. Hold steady.

Instead of panicking, your best bet is to make sure all your financial ducks are in a row. Make sure that you have bank and 401(k) statements available and handy.

If you bank or trade stocks online, print out an update of your account holdings. Not only does this provide you a record of your holdings, but it also refreshes your memory about what accounts you have and exactly what they hold.

4. Maintain good habits.

Remember, that the 9/11 disaster resulted in the suspension of trading for four days. For that reason, don't make a major change to your portfolio now, unless it's essential.

You're better off scheduling periodic checks on your asset allocation to make sure that you're investing wisely.

5. Control what you can.

While it's true there's little you can do about the terrorist threats, do what you can to secure the safety of you and your family.

If you live in one of the cities where the terror threat is now at the highest level, make sure to have a disaster plan at hand. Decide ahead of time where you and your family would meet if a problem occurred. Make sure you have food and water handy at your office, and at home. Having land line phone numbers is essential. The 9/11 disaster interrupted cell phone service.

If you don't live in one of the cities targeted, control the risks you can. Check your home and life insurance to make sure you have adequate coverage. Create your own backup communication systems with friends and family.

5 posted on 08/10/2004 1:02:36 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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Please support Them:

The U.S. Border Patrol is now part of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) within the Department of Homeland Security. Information about the Border Patrol may be found in the Enforcement section of the CBP website.

Welcome to the Border Patrol Home Page

The United States Border Patrol is the thin green line of men and women who protect America's borders

6 posted on 08/10/2004 1:07:11 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: nwctwx

First Ping

7 posted on 08/10/2004 1:07:57 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: Donna Lee Nardo; CharlotteVRWC; All

Alert Tips!

by Donna Lee Nardo

Pay attention to cell phones -- phones that will activate explosives and phones that take pics. Technology helps us and it also helps the bad guys. E.g., Is that swarthy type innocently talking to a friend on his cell, is he about to explode a remote bomb or is he casing a building and taking pictures of the area? It only gets more complicated these


by CharlotteVRWC

WE need to all be carrying cameras or videocams, and snap pictures or
film those guys that are filming buldings, bridges, tunnels.


8 posted on 08/10/2004 1:19:47 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: ExSoldier; All

by ExSoldier Invaluable Tips:
This is just the first step to being secure. IMHO.
518 posted on 08/03/2004 5:47:15 PM CDT



I do not advocate folks get firearms training from any other than a certified instructor (like me) or from a book, neither would I feel real great about having somebody try something I described on the thread and
getting killed for their effort. I know exactly what to do if I'm grabbed from behind, but the response is inculcated to the point of instinctual reaction and difficult to "explain." Therefore we need to keep it so simple, it can be done in "one move." But before we get to "moves" we
have to start with :


Be aware -

See life as a series of threat levels - think of them like a stoplight: Green, Yellow, Red.

A. Green means "GO" and 99% of the population (except FREEPERS!) is stuck in this mode. They go through life with their eyes down, thinking of everything but their own safety. They wonder what's on tv; who phoned while they were out; what's for dinner; does he or she really love me;
etc. Everything but what matters.


B. Yellow means "caution." You must be aware of your surroundings in a 360 degree perimeter for about a forty foot radius. You should be "aware" of every moving object and living thing in that area. How do you keep track of what's behind you?

If you're walking down a sidewalk and a car passes near you on the road, you can tell by the sound of it's tires how fast it's moving and the wind pressure against your body.

You can hear when it slows down by the engine noise and brakes.

If you approach your car in a parking lot, be sure to not only check the back seat, but also under the car before you even get close.

Moving perimeter____

You are aware of things and allow your little onboard "voice" that everyone has and never listens let you know something is strange.

What about the guy who looks drunk and is stumbling towards you? Is he only faking being drunk, are his feet moving in a coordinated fashion but his body seems to sway and stumble?

Can you see his hands? Look around. Do you see anybody reacting to your specific presence, for example some guy crosses the street to your side for no apparent reason? Let's say you glance across the street and become aware that another man seems to be moving in concert with the first.

Now what?


Insert a color here to the Traffic light model----ORANGE ALERT--

is a heightened alert specific to a given situation. It means you are aware of a specific threat to your person. You must assess and then decide how to act and whether to raise an alrm as it were, or disengage and get the heck out of there or finally (and only if you're qualified to
do so) to engage. The key is assessment!


Look for a weapon or the possibility of a weapon.

Look for backup buddies out to the wings or in a vehicle.


Then...DECIDE. From the second of actual decision, you must instantly do one of two things:


I always recommend to disengage! Unless you're judicial meanz. Or somebody trained and experienced in this kind of action.

CONDITION RED. This is quite simply, COMBAT. Slapping leather going for the draw, whatever.


Condition green invites victimization.

Condition Orange can't be maintained for very long, you'll tire quickly.

But Condition YELLOW can be maintained forever without effort. You can live, eat and sleep in Yellow. It's very easy to take somebody in condition green. It's might well be impossible to take anybody in "yellow."



When grabbed from behind: "Pinch" the skin on the inner part of the thigh (pant material is thinner here) and just twist the crap outta it!

You can try this on yourself and be aware of the sensation without maiming yourself in the process. The idea here is to make the person LET GO in a shock reaction. After that, you may have to follow up with some other strike or just haul A$$.

One more important technique!

It only works at night or in some really dark area like a parking garage, but for folks especially living behind enemy lines in a gun oppressed area get a SureFire Flashlight of at least two lithium cells in strength. Their 6P model is a fine choice but if you can afford bigger by all means, as long as you can carry it well.

The beam of one of these lights is easily enough to temporarily blind/stun an attacker when he doesn't know it's coming. They are tail switch activated and some can be had with a bezel ring adjuster that is jagged and useful as a striking weapon. I'm never without mine, even when I'm armed. Maybe especially when I'm armed.


* $20 in quarters in a sock to beat the snot outta criminal.

* Take a section of newspaper and roll it up like you were going to swat a fly. Then bend it double and hold it in your fist. It should allow your fingers to close all the way around it. Where the crease appears there will be a number of small points or knobs. That is the striking
surface. You'll find that the paper is now a sturdy club capable of literally splitting skulls.

* A variation or should I say an evolution of the Kubaton is called the Kerambit. It's an innocous looking little piece of plastic that looks like it's shaped into a broad "L" shape with a hole in one end. Use it
correctly and you can take anyone any size at anytime.

9 posted on 08/10/2004 1:24:37 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: Honestly; knak; Domestic Church; Don Joe; Labyrinthos; judicial meanz; All

FOR FEMALES by Honestly
546 posted on 08/03/2004 6:16:50 PM CDT

I learned in a YMCA self-defense for women class several years ago:

1) If grabbed from behind, take a deep breath and don't freeze up - this will surprise the attacker and he may loosen his grip.

2) If grabbed from behind, put your chin to your chest and throw your head back hard to either knock the wind out of him or smash his nose or throat depending on the height of you and the attacker. Use your elbows as weapons.

3) If face to face, knee to groin first. Then take the sole of your hand and smash their nose upwards and in as hard as you can. The instructor said this can actually kill someone. If keys aren't handy, two fingers in the eyes may help you get away.

4) If attacked from the side, kick the knee and run your shoe down their shin as hard as you can. Stomp as hard as you can on the top of their foot.

5) A purse can be a lethal weapon if swung really hard.

You've got one chance to get away, so give it all you've got.


TIP by knak
556 posted on 08/03/2004 6:34:02 PM CDT

I posted a link at #481. Do a site search for Impact Kerambit. It's only $9. But I would recommend the video that you can also get. Maybe another $12.

My dad sent me a safety tips for women kind of article a while back and it says the elbow is the strongest bone in the body....use it!

TIP by Domestic Church
638 posted on 08/03/2004 9:16:57 PM CDT

"What to do if approached from behind "

I was taught for starters to jab into the person with elbow(other hand over fist pushing back)followed by a kick straight back (with high heels of course) and then slam down on the instep. Do this as rapid and as forcefully as you can.

TIP by Don Joe
813 posted on 08/04/2004 6:39:38 AM CDT

To drop someone, you want to kick the knee sideways, because it only takes about 12 lbs or so to tear the ligament that holds it all together.
(The front-back connections are very strong, but the sideways ligaments are apparently very weak, not designed to withstand much trouble.)

TIP by Labyrinthos
311 posted on 08/03/2004 11:08:30 AM CDT

A sharp blow to the point of the nose with the palm of the hand also works well. There are nerve bundles between the shoulder joint and base of the neck, which if struck firmly will cause temporary paralysis.

There are also nerve bundles on the mound of the forearm just below the elbow that if struck firmly will temporarily immobilize the arm.

The top of the foot near the leg bone is also a painfull spot.

One of the best carry on weapons is a belt with a heavy metal buckle.

Always carry a sharp pen and a key ring so that the ring fits into your palm when you make a fist and the longest key sticks out between your index and middle finger.

The key is to focus and to size up your potential opponent before you have to act so that you have a plan of attack if the need arises.

TIPS by by judicial meanz
439 posted on 08/03/2004 4:18:42 PM CDT
496 posted on 08/03/2004 5:32:34 PM CDT

1) Always carry a rat-tail comb, and keep it close at hand. Use it to gouge out an attackers eyes. Dont be squeamish-they wont be, and its better than being dead. The attacker cannot hurt you if they cannot see you.

2) Wind your keys in your fingers, and use them to hit the person in the face around the eyes. If they cant see you, they cant hurt you.

3) A kick to the groin is cliche. Most men expect it to come and shield for it instinctively. Kick for the knees instead, and aim the kick to knock the knee backwards for maximum injury effect. If they cant walk, they cant chase you and hurt you.

4) If you are grabbed from behind, reach down there and grab a handful of groin ( I wont name it, but you know what I am referring to). Twist that thing right off if you have to. Use maximum force and twist your hand while you pull. They cant rape if they cant use it.

5) Drive your heels into their shins as hard as you can while you do the "vending machine pull" on the groin. That will make them involuntarily throw up, hopefully.

6) If they are close enough to grab you, you have the upper hand because you can react before they act ( if you are prepared). If they are two arm lengths away, you do not have the advantage. Always draw them in close to hurt them, and act quickly.

* Use a tube sock and put either a bar of soap or something else with a little oomph into it. Then beat the snot out of the terrorist.

Criminals use this little trick all the time in jails te even scores.

Some of them end up in critical condition from sock/soap attacks.

10 posted on 08/10/2004 1:33:37 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: little jeremiah; Quix; BagCamAddict; wakingup; crabbie; Tarheel; knak; nwctwx; Judith Anne; ...


11 posted on 08/10/2004 1:37:01 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: All; JustPiper

Godzilla Summaries

July 7-31, 2004
(Important Links)

12 posted on 08/10/2004 1:37:14 AM PDT by nwctwx
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To: Kinetic

13 posted on 08/10/2004 1:37:49 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: All

Godzilla Summaries

August 1-9, 2004
(Important Links)

14 posted on 08/10/2004 1:37:51 AM PDT by nwctwx
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To: All
TECH CENTRAL "TERRORISM IN SHIP SHAPE" by Russell Seitz (August 6, 2004) (Read More...) "WEEKLY PIRACY REPORT" (Read More...)

15 posted on 08/10/2004 1:38:04 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: Kinetic

16 posted on 08/10/2004 1:38:29 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: JustPiper; Kinetic

Thread Seventeen looks wonderful as usual. Thanks to you both.

17 posted on 08/10/2004 1:39:03 AM PDT by nwctwx
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To: HipShot; MamaDearest


18 posted on 08/10/2004 1:39:16 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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To: JustPiper; All
NEWS (Updated Daily - Click Here.)

"ARE THEY FOR US OR AGAINST US?" (Updated Daily - Click Here.)


SEPTEMBER 11, 2001: "ATTACK ON AMERICA!" (Updated) (Click Here.)

19 posted on 08/10/2004 1:40:52 AM PDT by Cindy
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To: drymans wife; Quix; Alamo-Girl; Selene; Mrs. Xtrmst; texasbluebell; crabbie; WestCoastGal


20 posted on 08/10/2004 1:41:33 AM PDT by JustPiper (Obama- No More Free Ride to the Illinois Senate !!!)
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