A new era of Christian persecution: Pat Buchanan exposes why Islam is not a religion of peace

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Monday, August 9, 2004 | Pat Buchanan

[Havoc]

Why must you take things I say out to absurd extremes to pretend you're saying something useful. I didn't say Rome is out to kill everyone it disagrees with. I noted that it's policy in that regard has not changed. And given the noted stance of many Roman Catholics here and the fact that these issues still arise today with persecutions, It is not possible to say that Rome won't act as it once did.

Religions can define what they are to themselves. That doesn't make them right. And Christianity was defined for us by Christ and the Apostles so it's not a matter of us having to debate our way through things. They gave us a solid foundation. The problem comes in when people hijack Christianity and turn a portion of it's congregants into a sect of cultists following their own carnal ends. Like, oh, say - murdering other people for not following their philosophy.

I understand you accuse me of hating catholics all the time as an argumentation device. No parent that corrects their child loves them - you do realize that don't you. No spouse that disagrees with their partner loves them - nope - it's shear hatred. You say oj and she says grape juice - you are a bigot. See how easy that was. But it's just about your only device for going after me because in 6 years you guys haven't found anything else to aptly discredit me with. I know you'd like to; but, hey, can't have everything. LOL.

[SoothingDave]

I understand you accuse me of hating catholics all the time as an argumentation device. No parent that corrects their child loves them - you do realize that don't you. No spouse that disagrees with their partner loves them - nope - it's shear hatred. You say oj and she says grape juice - you are a bigot. See how easy that was. But it's just about your only device for going after me because in 6 years you guys haven't found anything else to aptly discredit me with.

You discredit yourself everytime you hit the "Post" button. And I do understand that correction is an act of love. Which makes your hissy fit about the Church labeling anathemas even more hysterical.

You apparently recognize when you string together non sequiturs and bring up unrelated acts of violence by nominal Catholics in South America to blame victims of Church bombings in Iraq on the Church's alleged "policies" that it is just "loving correction" from you.

But you throw a fit if the Church, in a calm and rational matter declares "this is a bad thing to believe."

SD

[Zionist Conspirator]

Pat waited to the end to get to the meat of his argument -- he thinks all this is OUR fault! ....that our "imperialism" is causing the world's Muslims to kill and persecute Christians by the millions.

What did you expect? I'm only surprised he didn't go on and blame our "imperial presence" on the Jews. But he's probably done that in plenty of other contexts.

BTW, was Communist persecution of chr*stians caused by American anti-Communism, and would it have ended if we had bowed out of that fight?

[Havoc]

Well, lets see, who's discrediting who each time he hits the post button - would that be you. I didn't blame attacks on Christians overseas by islamists on Rome. Didn't come anywhere near that. I asked if Rome had done anything to cause a retaliation by the islamists.

Most everything you've said is ad hominem. Why is it so difficult for you to simply address the original question without running us on a merry chase and attacking?

[Irishguy]

Havoc,

i know and knew it was recent but my point still stands...what iwas saying is it is patently wrong but i cant answer for what someone has done or not done in south america. what i am saying is it is wrong, makes no difference to me what religion they are.

as for catholic doctrine -- my point was : i dont agree with it and i make a CHOICE not to. surely that is the point. Christianlty offers a CHOICE.

As for this :

'And Roman Catholics not only believe it is Rome's right to murder whomever they deam to be a heretic, they look upon any christian who doesn't bow to Rome as a heretic'

ahem..i see we are all some type of midless zombie... ALL OF US ..EVERYWHERE...well im not...so you can no longer say ROMAN CATHOLICS..as it patently doesnt apply to me. I dont like speaking for others but i guess i am not alone.

i CHOOSE not to follow..and if ALL CATHOLICS did...surely we would not be having this discussion as we would rampage all over the planet...like mindless zombies...??

this is the back and forth discussion i was talking about. the he said /she said. I SUPPORT and ALWAYS WILL SUPPORT your right to think what you want. As a christian (even the supposidely mindless one i am ) I dont care what the pope says on issues i dont agree with. But HOWEVER i expect the same from you.

Now i think if you want to start a thread on catholcs and their issues, i will respond, BUT the issue of this thread is in my opinion....we (you and me and everyone here who is christian) is a target...it just so happens your brothers and sisters in DHARFUR need your help. I for one am prepared to help. Are you?

[Havoc]

ahem..i see we are all some type of midless zombie... ALL OF US ..EVERYWHERE...well im not...so you can no longer say ROMAN CATHOLICS..as it patently doesnt apply to me. I dont like speaking for others but i guess i am not alone.

I don't particularly see it as speaking for others when it is their clergy that sets policy which they are obliged to adhere to. So while I can't speak for Soothingdave, save for where I am bloody familiar with a given position he specifically holds, I wouldn't say that Soothingdave believes I'm a heretic unless he'd already at some point said as much. Far be it from me to say that Dave would believe anything that Rome told him he must. LOL

i CHOOSE not to follow..and if ALL CATHOLICS did...surely we would not be having this discussion as we would rampage all over the planet...like mindless zombies...??

That is good to hear; but, makes me wonder why you're catholic instead of Christian? Guess I'll leave that for another discussion.

this is the back and forth discussion i was talking about. the he said /she said. I SUPPORT and ALWAYS WILL SUPPORT your right to think what you want. As a christian (even the supposidely mindless one i am ) I dont care what the pope says on issues i dont agree with. But HOWEVER i expect the same from you.

So, you're one of the ones that other Roman Catholics I talk to regularly tell me is a "catholic in name only". Picking and choosing what to follow means you're using your head. I have to applaud you loudly for that. I would like to think it will lead you down the usual path; but, I'm sure God will take care of that ;)

Now i think if you want to start a thread on catholcs and their issues, i will respond, BUT the issue of this thread is in my opinion....we (you and me and everyone here who is christian) is a target...it just so happens your brothers and sisters in DHARFUR need your help. I for one am prepared to help. Are you?

I for one think this situation can be helped and will be helped. Doesn't really matter if they are brothers in Christ, they are fellow human beings - that is the standard. At the same time, this is a news story like any other we disect here daily when something doesn't smell right. And something don't smell right about the story. Who is involved doesn't matter. I happen to think the truth is more important than any bloody label whether it's one I wear, my friends wear or my enemy wears. Fix the problem and get to the bottom of it. Either someone here is stretchin things a bit, or there's a reason for it. If we know why, we can know what to expect for the long term.

[chs68]

All the world is today focused on Darfur in the western Sudan. Forgotten are the millions of Christians in the southern Sudan who suffered torture, slavery, mutilations, rapes, starvation, massacres and exile at the hands of Sudanese soldiers after Khartoum declared Islamic law for the nation. "

Buchanan points out something that has bothered me for some time recently.

The Sudan has been engaged in a program of starvation and slavery against Christians living in the southern part of Sudan. And the press has paid very little attention to it. I don't recall Kofi Annan making any pronouncements on it either.

But when Muslims in Darfur are targeted, suddenly the inhumane policies (towards the people of Darfur) of the Sudanese government become a real cause celebre.

This is not to suggest that a light should not be shone on what is happening in Darfur. It should.

But it bothers me that the press and the UN have ignored the lpight of the Christians in southern Sudan for a long time.

[Irishguy]

Havoc,

thanks..i think ;)

okay im irish and maybe a bit slow, so i will take it as a compliment.

i am catholic and a christian but thats just me...and good for you and a good point..they are all human. I could not agree more..i stand corrected.

My concern about this thread is it just alwwyas appears to me that Islam has become some type of uncritizabile religion that we all have to bow before that makes no mistakes (or rather will admit to none). I dont believe (and as you have said) that any religion is perfect (well i think you said that -- if you didnt pleasde pretend you did!) and certianly what people do in the name of a religion is in some cases frightening.

so the issue i have is that islam is going thru the growing pains that christianty went thru 600 years or so ago..

my concern (and i definitely know you have said this ::is the PRESENT) 600 odd years ago the damage you could do with a sword was terrible but localised...however today the issue is one of the same moronic mindset except mixed with 500 tons of niger yellowcake...the odd WMD stockpile

but one final thing...good name :)) LOL...certainly the best name...and living up to it i see!!!! HA HA HA

[Havoc]

Ok, we are on the same page. LOL. Salute. BTW, I have Scotch/Irish background in my family. Is it me or are bagpipes a genetic thing? I mean I used to think like Harry Truman - "sounds like pigs being murdered." But something about the sound of them just seems to draw me back home. Anyway, Glad we see eye to eye.
And I do tend to live up to my handle. LOL.

[Irishguy]

HA HA HA...i will never be able to watch bagpipes again without that image HA H A HA excellent...

as for yer grandmother being irish...sorry about that...we are everywhere...its a secret irish plan for domination of the universe....just thought id let you know..i will show you the secret handshake soon...

[Havoc]

LOL. I loved the guy in Braveheart, pretty representative of us in general, isn't it - "It's my island, yup". Bold and unwavering. Gotta love it.

[FITZ]

Answer: What is going on in the Islamic world is something akin to what happened in Europe from the Spanish Reconquista in 1492 through the Thirty Years War. As Isabella was determined to expel the Moors and de-Islamicize all of Spain, militant Muslims are today determined to expel all Christians and to de-Christianize the Islamic world.

The Reconquista was about the Spaniards taking back their country, ousting their Islamic captors. What's going on in the Islamic world is more akin to Nazi Germany planning to take control over all of Europe.

[Michael2001]

What are you talking about?

[Havoc]

Covered a lot of area in that post, is there a specific issue you're questioning?

[miltonim]

Muhammad-inspired persecution of Christians, Jews and all non-Muslims continues...