The Darker Side of Liberty

RightGoths.com ^ | August 8, 2004 | Ivan Groznii

[MadIvan]

Recently, the Australian government made it illegal to use the internet to counsel or incite suicide. Also, it is now illegal there to produce and possess materials which provide assistance and advice on how to take one’s own life. The fines associated with this offense includes a maximum penalty of 110,000 Australian dollars (approximately US $78,000).

This law has been passed without much notice in Australia. There are those who will probably applaud the Australian government’s efforts to stop youth suicide, and this measure may even have some admirers abroad. For example, suicide is also a problem in the United States – the Senate, led by Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, recently passed a bill calling for some $80 million in spending on various services to prevent suicide among young people. Reid stated that this was necessary as suicide was the 11th highest cause of death in the United States: more children die from suicide each year than cancer, heart disease, AIDS, birth defects, stroke and chronic lung disease put together.

The motives behind these laws and appropriations are laudable. It is clear that youth suicide is a social problem that needs to be addressed. However, the Australian and American governments are in danger of missing a point by their actions: while liberty has many positives, there is a darker side to it as well. People will not always use their freedom in a positive fashion. And as tempting as it may be to use the power of the state to perform social engineering, in order to prevent the dilution of liberty it is necessary to resist that pressure even when these negative aspects come to the fore.

[MadIvan]

Rest of the article on the site.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Ping!

[Noachian]

Now, it is rightly illegal to actually attempt the act of suicide, as it does prevent others from the enjoyment of their property – namely, others are often required to clean up (i.e., pay for) the mess, whether it is through emergency services or the involvement of the police and fire departments.

While I'm no fan of suicide I don't see how it prevents first responders from the enjoyment of their property.

Cleaning up messes is what they do for a living. Without the messes society causes first responders wouldn't have a job, nor would they have property to enjoy in their off time.

Another way of looking at this part of the article is that suicide keeps first responders busy and employed thereby contributing to their personal property and enjoyment of it.

[MadIvan]

While I'm no fan of suicide I don't see how it prevents first responders from the enjoyment of their property.

Others have to pay the first responders salaries. It's those people whose property is violated.

Regards, Ivan

[Noachian]

Others have to pay the first responders salaries. It's those people whose property is violated.

If you're talking about tax money then you're talking about public money that will be spent anyway - suicides or no suicides.

No public money (taxes) will be saved by stopping suicides it will just be shifted to something else. Public taxes seldomn decrease, but generally increase. No one, who pays taxes, will be prevented from the enjoyment of their property because some fool kills himself.

Now if this article were to make an arguement for separately taxing people for each suicide that takes place - which would be a tax increase - then I'd agree with it.

[nmh]

"Liberty’s darker side not only comes out in the discussions of suicide, which is admittedly an extreme example. Many more examples appear in what passes for modern art. For example, Robert Mapplethorpe’s idea of “art”, including a photograph of a crucifix in a jar of urine, was highly offensive. Damien Hirst’s pieces, involving animals sawed in half and preserved in formaldehyde, were also disturbing. “Artists” have gone so far as to write plays about Jesus Christ having homosexual relations with his apostles. These “artists” are free to do all of this, though it must be noted that citizens, in turn, have the right to denounce their “works”, not attend any exhibitions or performances, and ensure their government doesn't’t provide any cash for them. "

Unfortunately people ABUSE their freedom. I don't know if it is because people are terminally dumbed down or just plain evil.

When it comes to perversion ... homosexuality and pornography that's okay as well as art that offends Christians ... that's defended. As for suicide, the dark side of me says - let em go. Put them out of their misery while the moral side of me says WHY should government interfere with this? WHY is it the role of government, again, the role of parent - telling you what you can and cannot do? Have people totally lose all common sense?

[MadIvan]

Put them out of their misery while the moral side of me says WHY should government interfere with this? WHY is it the role of government, again, the role of parent - telling you what you can and cannot do? Have people totally lose all common sense?

We've gotten into bad habits - we keep turning to the state to sort problems we should be trying to solve ourselves. Rather than say helping Senator Reid spend money, one could volunteer to work for charity or donate money to an anti-suicide charity. Ones like the Samaritans in the UK have a much better rate of success than anything the government does. Why? Because they're people who actually care, not bureaucrats being paid to do a job.

People will abuse freedom because they're human, imperfect and as a consequence will do dumb things. Some things are more dumb than others. Still, liberty's value is not negated by people behaving like idiots.

Regards, Ivan

[Happygal]

What's the point in fining someone who has accessed 'handy tips to top yerself'?

If someone has the selfish (and yes, I believe suicide to be a very selfish act) intent to commit suicide they need psychiatric care - not a fine.

[KangarooJacqui]

My late husband committed suicide eight months ago. Had he had access to quality psychiatric care, perhaps that sad end would not have happened. As it was, we were in Oregon, and I had no idea where to look. I was also in fear of further violence from him, had he known what I was trying to do...

I do hope, Happygal, that you never lose anyone close to you to suicide. Suicide is not a "selfish act", as many would condemn it - it is the last resort for someone who feels they have nowhere else to turn.