Why America hates football (soccer)

I agree with Henry Lee II. The most important point is the lack of structured plays which is endemic to both Soccer and Hockey.

In football, each play is really 11 man on man battles where technique more than speed or strength determines the winner. The stoppage of play between plays adds greatly to the ability of the coach to implement strategies.

I'm not sure how a team that doesn't have the chance to communicate and plan can match the strategy of one that uses intricately designed pre planned plays.

Also, as Henry Lee II has pointed out there are millions of decisions that take place in a baseball game.

I'm certainly no expert on soccer, but I used to watch a lot of hockey and would definitely say that it has less strategy than either football or baseball. Perhaps I'm missing something?

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

They don't discuss the subtleties at all in football coverage. What they discuss is only the most minor aspects of strategy, and only the broadest discussion of individual action. When was the last time you heard a commentator talk about the importance of the plant foot in a block, squaring the shoulders for a hit, tapping a cornerback to get him to go the wrong direction in his coverage, how to get away with a pick? They aren't discussing these things, you know why? Too subtle. They spend like three minutes a game talking about using the run to setup the pass, maybe 1 minute a game talking about throwing bombs to stretch out the field and keep the defense from crowding the line, you'll get 2 minute on picking up the blitz but nothing on what they actually do when protecting the QB. The subtleties of the game are completely ignored, the audience doesn't want to hear it, and the commentators don't want to bore them.

A "good" commentator might tell you stuff about baseball decisions, but most don't. You get a little bit about pitch selection, but really not much. of course in the end there really isn't much subtlety in baseball to discuss, 90% of the players aren't doing anything 90% of the time, I guess the could discuss a player's sunflower eating technique.

And you just proved you don't know anything about soccer. There are structured plays, there are lots of structured plays, most of the time when a team advances the ball into the box it's a structured play. It actually requires a lot more strategy than football because the players need to figure out which plays they can get to from the position they're in and which one has the better chance of succeeding. That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about when I say Americans aren't interested in the subtlety of a game. You decided that since eveybody doesn't start from a predetermined position that means there are no structured plays in soccer, and you would be 100% wrong in that regard, but because the get to those plays subtly through motion you'll never notice it.

Good luck on the rollerball league.

Find a good italian bakery for the cannolis.

Watch soccer or hockey or lacrosse or what ever you would like--you can tell we're in the summer doldrums when ESPN features poker and bass fishing.

I can't wait for fall and the NFL, NBA, and the baseball playoffs and World Series along with college football and basketball to get going. Notice no mention of the olympics.

In the mean time we have an election campaign that may provide some excitement.

regards,
Cal

Most Americans already have their sports--baseball/football/basketball......and haven't ever played or taken the opportunity to understand soccer. Soccer is one my favorite things to watch whereas 10 years ago I could not have cared less. Granted I have befriended some Brit-expats who have turned me on to the exciting aspects of the Premiership. I have also been to a Chelsea game at Stamford Bridge---London's equivalent of Old Trafford in Manchester. There is nothing like the atmosphere of a bigtime European soccer game....the only thing I can even compare it to is a big time SEC college football game. Even so, you can't find cops on horseback guiding the rabid fans to nearest pub. I'll never forget the Chelsea fans teaching me the fight songs on tube....too much fun....

As for advertising...networks have put up the "transparent" onfield ads. Additionally you get to see a lot more of the ads around field so I would have to guess that those advertisers within camera-shot are having to pay more for their ads than those advertisers that are not in view of the tv cams.

There's also a lack of soccer specific stadiums...Stamford Bridge is fantastic....I haven't been to anything quite like it over here.

And by agreeing with Henry all you've proven is that you don't know anything about soccer or hockey. There are set plays in both, there are set plays every single time a team gets into offensive territory, there are set plays every single time a team gets into defensive territory. The lack of set plays you see is do to your own blindness.

In soccer each movement is part of a 1 on 11 battle where technique more than speed or strength determines the winner, the lack of stoppage of play between plays forces the players to know the game well enough to implement strategies, and forces the coaches to have taught the players well enough for them to implement the right strategy.

The teams do have a chance to communicate. If you sit near the field/ ice surface at a soccer or hockey game you'll fing that the communication is constant, they never stop yelling, banging, pointing and whistling to each other. they easily match the strategy of football because the strategy works in a fluid battle environment, they must adapt and overcome.

I doubt highly there are millions of decisions during a baseball game, hundreds is more like it. Hyperbole aside soccer and hockey players make decisions constantly, every single stride is a decision, every time a hockey player changes the position of his stick it's a decision, every time the coach puts fresh legs out on the ice (on average every 45 seconds when there isn't a stopage of play) there's 5 decisions. Oh and lets talk about changing players on the fly, no other sport does that, no other coach has to make decisions while the play is continuing. There are easily dozens of times more decisions during the course of a hockey or soccer game than during a baseball game, if only because there are so many more people MAKING decisions.

You're missing everything, you're missing all of the subtlety of the game, you're missing how the game is actually played, how it's coached, and how it works. You're missing why teams need two legitimate cneters of each handedness, you're missing the line changes, you're missing why dump ins happen, you're missing why players carry the puck across the blue line, you're missing how players get in position to make tip-ins, you're missing why a player passes to a certain player for the one-timer, you're missing why they pass back, you're missing why they go for a wrister instead of a slapshot and the unpredictable beauty of the backhander, you're missing why there are fights, the face wash, and grinding it out in the corner, and you missed why it's called Gretzky's office.

And you just proved you don't know anything about soccer. There are structured plays, there are lots of structured plays, most of the time when a team advances the ball into the box it's a structured play. It actually requires a lot more strategy than football because the players need to figure out which plays they can get to from the position they're in and which one has the better chance of succeeding.

No, those aren't structured plays because there is not a stoppage of play in between, there is no required formation as in football (at least five on a line, with ends covered, etc.). What you see in soccer is a bunch of tired guys running to approximate areas based primarily on their position, looking for likely passing lanes, etc. And no, football commentators do discuss bumping-off techniques for WRs, differences in blocking on running v. passing plays, and even differences within each, subtleties employed by safeties, etc. I don't know what football coverage you watch, but Fox announcers do a good job covering NFC games, and the ESPN/TNT crew on Sunday evenings is very thorough, as well.

Yes there are structured plays, because you don't need a stopage in play to get into a structured play. What you see in soccer is 11 guys that know the game knowing that when player X has the ball in that area and is being defended by players in certain relative positions to him then they need to go to this other area and be prepared to be passed to and pass the ball to a pre-determined area. These ARE set plays, they're no less set than how receivers vary their passing route for different coverage schemes by the defense, they're no less set than a hit and run in baseball or a sacrifice fly.

Not bumping off techniques, see you once again are bringing simple things that aren't part of the subtelty of the game and claiming that means they discuss subtle things. They don't, they never have, and the never will. The American football audience is not, for the most part, interested. And the ones that are interested will watch the mid-week shows on ESPN where they actually DO discuss these things. Fox announcers do a good job of covering the NFC, but that doesn't mean they discuss the subtle aspects of the game. And as for the ESPN sunday crew, they suck, Theisman is a homer for every QB in the league and the other color guy is just a moron incapable of forming a sentence without complaining about something, and usually he complains about things that aren't wrong. The play-by-play guy is good, they should give him some booth partners that actually earn their paycheck/

As I said before, I do know hockey and no, I'm not missing anything that you listed. There is simply no comparison between the strategy of a game of flow to a game with set plays. There is a total lack of precision in strategy in flow games.

You've failed to explain how there is more strategy in a flow game, you've only proven that it is more difficult to use strategy without set plays.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

I play regularly against Diesel, the Novice NPPL and PSP champions last season. I've got a Dark Angel LCD and a Lasoya Timmy. My team hasn't yet competed in any national events, but I just got back from the Super7 in Denver. My son got to meet Lasoya, Rocky Knuth, Ryan Greenspan, Ryan Williams, Travis Lemanski, and a bunch of others.

Oh, and Jeremy Salm is a regular at our field too.

Tournament paintball is an adrenaline rush like no other.

There is a lot more strategy in a game of flow, because your strategy must deal with the fact that your players might not be starting from the spot you need them too. There's a lot more precision, for one thing every player needs to know the role of every section of ice in a set play because they might not be in their section when the set play begins, so if the rightwinger is sitting in the left defense spot when the play begins he needs to do the left defense duty.

I explained exactly why there is more strategy in a flow game, and I showed why the players need to be smarter to use the set plays. As long as you insist there aren't set plays you are really insisting nothing more than you don't know anything about the game. There are set plays every time. You have set plays when bringing the puck over the blue line on one side and set plays when doing it on the other and more for going up the middle, you have set plays for each face off location, you have set plays for when to make dump ins and how to deal with them. These are all set plays, they are no less designed than an RB off tackle slam, and they are no less practiced, actually they're probably practiced more because the players need to know when to run set play X without it being called in from the bench. Just like any other set play they need to know at this time I do this, unlike light strategy games like football though they need to spot when "this time" comes on their own, they don't get any help from the referees and TV time outs to know when the play starts.

Until you can understand that flow games have set plays you will never understand flow games. As long as you think it's impricise and random you will only show your ignorance in these discussions.

I've got a Dark Angel LCD and a Lasoya Timmy.

Nice markers.

I told myself when I first started playing a couple of years ago, I was going to play at least two seasons with the Tippman before I made the plunge on a electronic marker. It's about that time, and I've got my eye on the evil omen.

However, even though the tipmman is slow, I can hold my own with it, and get eliminated because of mistakes, not the marker.

My team hasn't yet competed in any national events, but I just got back from the Super7 in Denver. My son got to meet Lasoya, Rocky Knuth, Ryan Greenspan, Ryan Williams, Travis Lemanski, and a bunch of others.

Dang, you got fat city beat. ;P

Tournament paintball is an adrenaline rush like no other.

Yes it is. It took one time playing airball for me to forget all about woodsball.

The constant stoppage of play in football is the one thing that makes it rather dull in comparison to soccer or hockey. Basically, all plays are run out of what would be called "set pieces" in soccer (free kicks, corner kicks, etc.) -- imagine how excruciating soccer would be if the whistle blew after every play and the ball was placed on the ground so everyone could line up somewhere and one player kicks the ball toward the opposing goal.

Hockey actually has far more strategy in it than most people realize. From a coach's standpoint, there is the constant challenge of setting up forward line combinations and defense pairs to match up against the opposing team's players. On the ice, the seemingly random, haphazard patterns of the game are far more "choreographed" than they seem. Every team goes out and uses standard, well-rehearsed plays for any number of situations (break-out passes, odd-man rushes, defensive play in the neutral zone, etc.).

Here's a good example . . .

When a defenseman gains possession of the puck behind his own net, watch how the other team reacts. Many teams will send one forward after him (a "forechecker"), while the other two forwards hang back in the offensive zone to guard against break-out passes. A forechecking forward who chases an opposing defenseman behind the net can pursue him from either direction, but a well-coached player will always try to pursue him in such a way that the defenseman is forced out from behind the net in the direction that requires him to carry the puck on his backhand (i.e., if he's right-handed, make him skate out to his goalie's left) -- because it's harded for him to make a long, accurate pass that way.

If you ever have a chance, go back and watch Game 7 of the 2003 Stanley Cup finals between the New Jersey Devils and the Anaheim Mighty Ducks.

One of the most remarkable things about that game is that the outcome was decided almost as soon as the game started. The Devils eventually won, 3-0, but from the first few minutes of the game there was a clear indication that the Devils had a very subtle advantage over the Ducks -- and they spent the entire game working that advantage until it panned out. Because the Devils were the home team and had the last line change, they were able to exploit the one mismatch that worked in their favor: they had one big, physical line (rookie Mike Rupp centering Jamie Langenbrunner and Jeff Friesen) that could maintain possession of the puck in the offensive zone and overwhelm most of the Ducks' players.

The Devils used this mismatch to their advantage constantly during the game. The big forwards would gain possession along the boards, cycle the puck among themselves in the corners, and then pass the puck out to one of the defensemen on the point. The forwards would scramble to the front of the net to screen the opposing goalie and prepare for rebounds, and the defensemen would fire accurate shots in the direction of the net in an attempt to generate scoring chances off deflections or rebounds from the big forwards.

It ended up working to perfection -- Rupp scored the first goal, Friesen had the other two, and defenseman Scott Niedermayer (one of the best defensemen in the league at generating offensive chances for his teammates with those accurate shots/passes from the point) ended up with two assists on the night (and finished as the top scorer in the playoffs that year) on nearly identical plays from his right defensive position.

Wait until we start winning, then see the crowds. And we WILL start winning. Nothing stops Americans once we get our hearts set on something.

We are winning. The USA is currently ranked 7th in the world. In 10 years we will start winning World Cups so regularly that the rest of the world will want to play ping pong instead of soccer. Even so, I could care less about watching soccer. I might tune into a game to watch France get beat, but that is about it. I'll stick to watching football - a REAL sport (and no need to call it American football either).

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