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Ready to rumble? Village Voice Author, Rick Perlstein, Here to Debate the Freeper Horde
08/03/2004 | Rick Perlstein

Posted on 08/03/2004 12:09:31 PM PDT by dead

Opening Statement

Dear FRiends:

I once suffered two great frustrations in being a freelance political writer. First, the loneliness: you put an article out there, and you might as well have thrown it down a black hole for all the response you get. Second, the ghettoization: when you do get response, it would be from folks you agree with. Not fun for folks like me who reliish--no, crave and need--political argument.

Then came the Internet, the blogs--and: problem solved.

I have especially enjoyed having my articles in the Village Voice posted on Free Republic by "dead," and arguing about them here. The only frustration is that I never have enough time--and sometimes no time--to respond as the threads are going on. That is why I arranged for an entire afternoon--this afternoon--to argue on Free Republic. Check out my articles and have at me.

A little background: I am a proud leftist who specializes in writing about conservatives. I have always admired conservatives for their political idealism, acumen, stalwartness, and devotion. I have also admired some of their ideas--especially the commitment to distrusting grand social schemes, and the deep sense of the inherent flaws in human nature. (To my mind the best minds in the liberal tradition have encompassed these ideals, while still maintaining that robust social reform is still possible and desirable. My favorite example is the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, author of the Serenity Prayer and a great liberal Democrat.)

Lately, however, I've become mad at the right, and have written about it with an anger not been present in my previous writings. It began with the ascension of George Bush, when I detected many conservatives beginning to care more about power than principles. The right began to seem less interesting to me--more whiny, more shallow--and, what's more, in what I saw as an uncritical devotion to President Bush, often in retreat from its best insights about human nature.

I made my strongest such claim in a Village Voice article two weeks ago in which I, after much thought, chose to say conservatism was "verging on becoming an un-American creed" for the widespread way conservatives are ignoring the lessons of James Madison's great insights in Federalist 51 that in America we are supposed to place our ultimate trust in laws, not men.

Finally, in what I see as the errors of the Iraq campaign, I recognize the worst aspects of arrogant left-wing utopianism: the idea that you can remake a whole society and region through sheer force of will. I think Iraq is a tragic disaster (though for the time being the country is probably better off than it was when Saddam was around--but only, I fear, for the time being).

I am also, by the way, a pretty strong critic of my own side, as can be seen in my latest Village Voice piece.

So: I'm yours for the day--until 7:10 pm CST, when I'm off to compete in my weekly trivia contest at the University of Chicago Pub. Until then: Are you ready to rumble?

Respectfully,
Rick Perlstein


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cheese; cutandpaste; flake; flamingvantiy; fr; freerepublic; frinthenews; hatesamerica; ifeelpretty; mediabias; moose; nopartinggifts; notdebate; perlstein; pinko; poopstain; rickstillhasntshown; seeyalaterliberal; thanksforplaying; triviacontest; villagevoice
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To: dead; Perlstein
In my time as a Freeper, I have written an essay about Toni Morrison's 'Clinton is the first black President" statement that was delivered to her mailbox by a Freeper who lived nearby her home. I have taken on investigative reporter Dan Moldea when he misled his readers about the motivation about something that I wrote. I have called and spoken to a Nightline staffer questioning why the show hadn't followed up on the collapse of the so-called "scandal" about Joe Wilson and his "now that's her cover's blown, let's plaster her face everywhere" wife Valerie Plame.

Given this golden opportunity to respond and directly debate articles with the author, I have reviewed the Perlstein articles posted. Unfortunately, I had trouble finding anything that Perlstein has been written to be significant enough for a response from me.

The only question that I have is this: Have you acknowledged in print that Bush critic Dick Clarke -- and not W himself -- was responsible for the departure of the Bin Laden family members?

1,021 posted on 08/04/2004 1:15:28 PM PDT by L.N. Smithee (When it comes to newborns getting stabbed in the head, Kerry cares...about drowning hamsters.)
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To: dead; All; Perlstein
READY TO RUMBLE?
When does the Rumble start, Mr Perlstein? Is this kind of like John Kerry "reporting for duty"? When do you intend to answer my questions?

QUESTION FOR PERLSTEIN
Mr. Perlstein, When do you think your candidate, John Kerry , will address his record in the senate? John Kerry, we know served four months in Viet Nam, and recieved some band aid wounds, that merited him some purple hearts and early dismissal from his "TOUR OF DUTY". At the Convention, John Kerry said he "was reporting for duty". Will John Kerry, find some other kind of superficial wounds to keep him from completing his "tour of duty " if elected for President. Because it seems, that John Kerry did not "report to duty" in the senate, 80 percent of the time. I am sure most Democrats have even noticed how many times John Kerry did not even "report to duty" in his own campaign, as he was biking, skiing, wind surfing, and just generally loafing around, because he was sure not present in the Senate. Defend your lackluster candidate! Get your Candidate to talk about his senate record. Get your Candidate to tell us how he feels about the issues, if you can.
1,022 posted on 08/04/2004 1:24:49 PM PDT by AmericanMade1776
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To: Semi Civil Servant
Time after time the clear meanings of laws and the Constitution itself are swept aside by judges with a liberal agenda.

You nailed it. I cannot recall a conservative Supreme Court Justice saying she doesn't follow the US Constitution but follows "international law". She should have been removed from the Court but since she is a liberal it wouldn't be PC I guess

1,023 posted on 08/04/2004 1:29:47 PM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: Mudboy Slim; Mrs Zip
THIS HAS TO BE REPOSTED: To: Perlstein
"...when you ask whether a nice guy would invade a country at the cost of untold innocent lives on the shakiest of pretenses?"
So, is this what you really believe about the Liberation of Iraq?! Tens of millions of Iraqis FReed from Totalitarian Despotism and Mass Graves, and you see it as an "invasion"!! Mr. Perlstein, was the Liberation of Kuwait an "invasion"? How 'bout when America LIBERATED Germany, Japan, Italy, much of South America, and eastern Europe?! What is it about LIBERTY that Lib'rals so loathe?

FReegards...MUD

Maybe he will answer but I doubt it.

1,024 posted on 08/04/2004 1:37:46 PM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: dirtboy; Mrs Zip

thanks, I'm heading there now.


1,025 posted on 08/04/2004 1:41:53 PM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: Perlstein

Before I trudge through a million responses, can you give a good edition of why the Iraq war is a mistake/quagmire if no WMD are found? I have 5-6 good reasons why it's a sound (if not brilliant) strategic and practical move.


1,026 posted on 08/04/2004 1:50:15 PM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: Perlstein

Your own article admits there are no "cuts" in the VA budget. The only change is the imposition of an income ceiling for new veterans seeking treatment of non-service related medical problems. That's not a "cut", no matter how the left tries to distort the truth.


1,027 posted on 08/04/2004 1:53:49 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: ozzymandus

I send this link to any of my liberal friends who try and spin the old “Veterans benefits slashed” canard.

Funding for Veterans up 27%, But Democrats Call It A Cut
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=144


1,028 posted on 08/04/2004 2:24:53 PM PDT by Flashman_at_the_charge (A proud member of the self-preservation society)
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To: Perlstein

So calling President George W. Bush a "deserter" is a "deep principle"? You haven't answered a single question yet, but responded with references to your magazine articles and leftist platitudes. I'm tired of this charade.


1,029 posted on 08/04/2004 2:37:11 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Southack; Perlstein
maybe the story of how the young lad Bush loaded up live frogs with firecrackers in order to watch them explode.

Where I grew up, that was called "being a boy". Goes hand-in-hand with skinning knees, playing in mud, climbing trees and the like.

At some point a boy grows out of it. I did. An incident, an experience, an epiphany. And lo, I was on my way to becoming a man. Some don't - they may take these actions on to other animals, pets, and people. Which ain't a Good Thing (TM). There's a whole generation going to grow up without these life experiences to shape them. They will instead have outcome-based education, and games sanctioned by personal-injury lawyers. I don't know what the outcome will be.

It's nonsensical to project current mores onto bygone eras, and it's a great height of conceit (and a chief liberal failing) to believe that we are living in the greatest, most-enlightened age and should apply our Superior Wisdom (TM) to all that has gone and all that's to come. It simply doesn't work. The one constant through all ages is human nature.

As long as we're painting with broad brushstrokes, I will give me own opinion regarding the three greatest defining traits of the modern liberal.

1. Hypocrisy - The end justifies the means if the means is noble enough. This is moral relativism, and I do not subscribe to it. I believe in absolute truths, and while I recognize shades of gray, it is the rarest of them that is not shaded more white or more black. Every anti-racism initiative of the left is by definition an hypocrisy, because it assumes that every individual is first and foremost not an individual, but a subset of a larger recognizable race-based (or whatever) identity group. This is the polar-opposite of being color-blind. I'd bet you if MLK could speak to the situation, he'd find more conservatives following his ideals than liberals.

2. Narcissism - There is more than we will ever know than we can even conceive of. I do not pretend to have all the answers, let alone try to inflict them on others through social engineering programs and the like. Again, it's the height of conceit for me to believe that I know what's better for anyone else than they themselves do. Many liberals are convinced that conservates are consumed with how much we hate liberals, and it's simply not the case. It's narcissistic to think I obsess on these philosophical differences. I don't care a whit what they do, right up until they start reaching into my wallet and telling me what I can't do. Which is entirely too often these days.

3. Socialism - Goes without saying, huh? I don't know, maybe those who need to identify with a greater group don't have a strong enough sense of self to say "I do what I need, and apart from that, I do what I want." I define myself less a conservative, than an anti-socialist. Subverting the individual to the group is tyranny. Confiscation of merited properties for group-based redistribution is tyranny. Political correctness is tyranny. Conservatives and liberals both have fallen into this trap. My rights were granted by God, and I don't remember the one about the right to Prescription Drugs. We're cascading into a society that confuses rights with entitlements, freedom with irresponsibility. I have no potential answer for that.

Somewhere along the way, the germination of some lofty and noble ideas was co-opted and corrupted and became the modern liberal left that we see today. It's a difficult task to argue to them that any moral high ground they claim was built with straw on a house of cards on a floodplain, because the ones I know are filled the conviction of the True Believer (a trait of the so-called 'Religious Right' as well). That, and a really visceral hatred of George W. Bush.

My own concept of conservatism is summed by the motto "Mind Your Business". Take personal responsibility for your actions and the outcomes of your actions - it's not McDonald's fault you dropped your coffee, and I think even near-sighted illiterate Bantu tribesman are aware that cigarette smoking poses certain health risks. Ultimately, not enough people have the wherewithall to say "This Bad Thing that happened to me is nobody's problem but mine," and deal with it.

There's a greater machination behind all of these societal symptoms (unseen hand, anyone?) we're pointing out that won't be clear until long after we've fossilized on the bedrock of time. But sure it's fun to speculate on where the Big Ship is headed. Some of even try to steer it a little. Me, I have a little cabin on a nondescript midships deck, and I'm going to look after it. That's my contribution. A conservative contribution, if you will.

1,030 posted on 08/04/2004 2:53:27 PM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: Mrs Zip; BOBWADE

whoop-de-do ping.


1,031 posted on 08/04/2004 7:05:56 PM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: Fawnn

I've heard he was a prosecutor, so I assume he did finish law school.


1,032 posted on 08/04/2004 7:19:46 PM PDT by GVnana (Tagline? I don't need no steenkin' tagline!)
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To: zip; Perlstein; dead
"Maybe he will answer but I doubt it."

Obviously, Mr. Perlstein conveniently avoided many of the more difficult questions fer Lib'rals to answer.

FReegards...MUD

1,033 posted on 08/04/2004 7:21:49 PM PDT by Mudboy Slim (Vast RightWing is Rockin'!!)
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To: dead

"Of course, two years after Bush made his pledge, only 2 percent of the AIDS money has been distributed (in any event, it will mainly go to drug companies)."

Rick, something that may of escaped your attention, it's the drug companies that make the Anti-AIDs drugs. Where else would you suggest the money be distributed to?


1,034 posted on 08/04/2004 9:31:05 PM PDT by Valin (Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.)
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To: dead

Nine hours later: I'm still waiting for one intelligent answer. When do you think he will respond?


1,035 posted on 08/04/2004 10:01:14 PM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 42% of americans)
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To: zip

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1184539/posts


1,036 posted on 08/04/2004 10:03:30 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Mudboy Slim

Please see 1036.


1,037 posted on 08/04/2004 10:04:19 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Howlin
I don’t exactly know why you are linking to that thread, which is merely a repost of an article that was already posted three weeks ago when it was originally written:

Church of Bush: What liberal infidels will never understand about president (FREEPERS quoted)

I linked directly to the original post of that article at the beginning of this thread. It’s one of the articles he was trying, unsuccessfully in my opinion, to defend.

Are you under the impression that he wrote that after the debate thread? If so, you are wrong. In fact, the original post of that article is the very thread where he said he would debate Freepers.

He said he wouldn’t cite anybody from the debate thread and, so far, I’ve seen no evidence that he has. I think you are confused.

1,038 posted on 08/04/2004 11:07:56 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: dead

Oh, I'm sorry; I thought it was a post/article he wrote after he was here.

And, yes, I am confused.


1,039 posted on 08/04/2004 11:11:17 PM PDT by Howlin (Saving Private Hamster)
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To: Howlin
It was an odd repost, that I think was intentionally designed to give people that impression.

I don't think Perlstein did very well, even considering how badly he was outnumbered.

He took a brutal pounding on the rather obscure Veteran's funding issue in the early rounds, and never really got his legs under him after that.

If there was a ref, he should have called it right there, instead of letting it drag on and on like that. It was painful to watch that sort of brutality.

1,040 posted on 08/04/2004 11:16:52 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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