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Jamming for Jesus
Jerusalem Post ^ | July 29th, 2004 | Jenny Hazan

Posted on 08/02/2004 5:12:15 PM PDT by missyme

Though officially illegal, the capital's last Messianic Youth Ministry continues to recruit local Jewish teens

When Jerusalem-born Daniel Cohen was 15-years-old, he wanted to become a professional drummer. So when a friend told him about free drum lessons at The Jamm he went straight to the Russian Compound to check it out.

"At first, the people at The Jamm were really nice to me. They even started to teach me how to play the drums," says Cohen.

After two months of hanging out at the coffee bar/youth center, one of Cohen's newfound friends gave him a copy of the New Testament in Hebrew and began to initiate discussions on the subject of Christ. An additional two months passed before Cohen was invited to participate in a youth trip to the Sea of Galilee, where he could join other Jamm youth in a mikveh ceremony.

"He asked me if I knew what Baptism is," recalls Cohen, who is now 17. "He said it wasn't a Christian thing, but a Jewish thing for Jews who knew the 'right way.'"

"I was shocked," he continues. "I was born a Jew and I want to be a Jew and I am not interested in converting away from Judaism. It is horrible when you think you have friends and then you find out that they are actually your enemies."

Cohen isn't alone. The Jamm (Jerusalem Artists, Musicians and Media) Center has been trapping Jewish teens in its messianic web since it was established in 1998. With open mike nights on Wednesdays and Punk concerts on Thursdays, including free coffee, chai tea and snacks, the non-smoking, alcohol-free Jamm provides a clean and tempting atmosphere for Jerusalem youth.

In one of the organization's pamphlets, The Jamm describes itself as "the first and only Israeli Messianic Youth ministry center of its kind in Israel," the main goal of which is "to serve as a safe place for young people to find out about the mercies of the true and living God."

According to Aaron Rubin at Yad L'Achim (Hands to Our Brothers), a Jerusalem-based organization dedicated to helping Jewish brethren escape from the clutches of cults and missionaries, The Jamm is among 100 so-called Messianic Jewish movements across Israel, 20 congregations of which are headquartered in Jerusalem.

Rubin lists the Baptists, the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (PAOC) and Caspari near Ben Yehuda Street, where Christians from Norway offer literature and courses to augment the effectiveness of English, Russian, Hebrew and French-speaking missionaries, among the larger missionary communities in the capital city.

Although he estimates the total number of missionaries currently operating in the country at around 4,000, Rubin says their numbers have increased by 100 percent over the past decade and that they continue to grow at an even more rapid pace today.

"The number of congregations are growing," says Rubin, who attributes the boom to several factors: the successful conversion to Christianity of new immigrants from the Former Soviet Union and Ethiopia; an increased number of dissidents who reject the theology of their church in favor of establishing their own individually-run institutions; the circumvention of the Law of Return, which according to a Supreme Court ruling in September 1992 stipulates that "openly-professed belief in Jesus is enough to render a born-Jew a member of another religion and thereby not eligible under Israel's immigration law for automatic citizenship in the Jewish State"; and a general expansion of messianic activity.

Messianic Jews share a belief in the idea that Judaism is the source of Christianity. The New Testament (so-called New Covenant) represents a unified extension of the Old Testament. Main tenets include regarding God as a compound unity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and belief in Jesus' virgin birth, sinless life, atoning death, bodily resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God the Father. They await the personal, bodily return of Jesus and believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost - the former to everlasting life, the latter to everlasting judgment and condemnation. It is in this Christian philosophy that the objective of conversion and "soul-saving" originates.

According to Rubin, the most common point of confusion for Jews who are approached by Messianic Jews is their self-definition as Jews. "They say they are Jews, not Christians and that their beliefs have nothing to do with Christianity."

This approach is deceptive, explains Rubin, since one-quarter of Messianic Jewish congregations in Israel are led by Christian-educated leaders.

In addition to their deceiving self-description, initial methods to entice new congregants usually include putting up posters and websites and going to festivals and public places to distribute pamphlets and books bearing Jewish symbols.

The difference between The Jamm and other organizations of its kind is that currently, it is the only active missionary body whose target audience are minors.

"Some movements send their children to speak with Jewish children because it's more delicate," says Rubin, "but most Jewish missionaries try to stay away from kids because it is illegal."

Article 368 of the Israeli Penal Code awards a maximum six-month incarceration for attempting to convert minors under the age of 18. Article 174(A) prohibits the offering and receiving of material benefits as an inducement to conversion of anyone, including those above and below the age of 18. Anyone who gives material benefits in exchange for a commitment to change one's religion can be sentenced up to 5 years in prison and fined a maximum of NIS 50,000.

According to Yoram Sheftel, a Ramat Gan-based criminal lawyer who volunteers on behalf of Yad L'Achim, the problem is that both the prosecution and the law enforcement authorities do not enforce the law.

"They rarely enforce the laws pertaining to missionary crimes," says Sheftel, who estimates that only one or two cases are actually brought to court every year.

No legal precedent exists because both crimes are dealt with at the lowest level, the Magistrate's Court, with appeals going to the District Court.

"There is no practical chance that a case like this would make it to the Supreme Court," adds Sheftel, who in 2000 drafted a bill that to date has neither been accepted nor rejected by the Knesset, which would make any attempt to persuade anyone to change his religion an offense against the law. "As it stands, the issue is not a priority in the eyes of the Jerusalem Police and the prosecution. These cases, therefore, are generally neither investigated nor prosecuted."

Rivka Cohen, Daniel's mother, who conditioned her interview on the changing of both her and her son's names, testifies to that fact.

Once she found out what was really going on at The Jamm in April 2003, she filed a report with the Jerusalem Police, who closed the case about a month later. They reopened the file in December 2003 after she filed a letter of complaint to the minister of justice.

"I have not heard anything about it since the case was reopened eight months ago," says Rivka. "From the very beginning, the police didn't want to take me seriously."

Besides the testimony of her son and the publications he was given at The Jamm that included a copy of the New Testament, a workbook about Jesus, a CD with Christian songs and a copy of the coffee house's publication 'Youth Speak ' a collection of personal stories by Israeli youth who became 'believers' in the Messianic movement, her report consisted of a video depicting incriminating discussions between Jamm members, shot by 18-year-old Yossi Levinson, a volunteer for Yad L'Achim who went undercover to investigate the place.

"It was disgusting. The place is dedicated to making Israeli youth believe in Yeshua," says Levinson, who disguised himself as a believer looking to make a video for fundraising purposes in America, in order to unveil the true philosophy behind The Jamm. "It's not maybe yes, maybe no. It's black and white. The best thing a believer can do is to make a non-believer believe in Christ. It's an even bigger 'mitzvah' if they convert a Jew."

Levinson reveals that two days after he handed the video over to the Jerusalem Police, he got a call from friends at The Jamm inquiring how the video got into the wrong hands. "I was shocked. Until now, I don't know how they found out about the video so quickly."

The police didn't call him in for questioning until three weeks later. At the same time, Richard Ayal Frieden, owner of The Jamm, was approached by police immediately.

Frieden is proud to define himself as a Jewish believer in Yeshua, but denies that the purpose of his establishment is to convert Israeli youth.

"The Jamm," says Frieden, a former narcotics detective at the Jerusalem precinct who left his job in 1994, "is a non-profit organization that exists to promote local arts and to encourage youth and young adults in their respective musical talents. There is nothing illegal going on at The Jamm. We are not actively proselytizing young people."

"There is a witch-hunt going on," continues Frieden who, in addition to The Jamm, runs an annual week-long music camp for messianic kids and oversees the Jamm Academy of Arts, which holds after-school fine arts, multimedia and computer graphics classes taught by believing professionals and Heart Rock TV (HRTV), which produces TVY2, a 30-minute Hebrew music video program for central public access channel Tevel (Arutz Mekomi Merkaz), national public access channel 25 (Arutz Zahav Artzi), Matav Digitali and Yes 90 (Artzi Arutz Hapatuach).

"If I've committed a crime in sharing the love of God through the good work that we are doing at the Jamm," says Frieden, "then put me on the stand."

On the HRTV website, Frieden writes: "The youth of Israel are key to the future of Israel and to the expansion of the indigenous body of believers. Many Israeli youth are walking in darkness. We are here to inform them of 'the one whom they have not believed ' and introduce them to 'the one whom they have not heard' (Romans 10:14)."

Frieden explains that The Jamm holds one faith-based worship service per week, meant exclusively for members of the Jerusalem Youth Cell Group. "Each person under the age of 18 who comes on Monday night needs permission from their parents."

Minors, claims Frieden, are given a waiver that clearly indicates what the service is about, for parents to sign. "This is something that we're quite strict about."

Shmulik Ben-Rubi, spokesman for the Jerusalem Police, concurs. "We have talked to both kids and their parents and we have found that parents allow their kids to be in this place."

Ben-Rubi notes that the investigation surrounding The Jam is still open. "If we find any sign of conversion, we will act according to the law. But as far as we know, they are not trying to convert kids."

The police might have missed Cohen, who says he was invited to a worship night without being given a waiver. "I was never asked to have my parents sign a permission form. I just came on a Thursday night and they invited me to come on Monday. They invite all the people who come on Thursday to the prayer meeting. That's how I got there. I wouldn't have known about it otherwise."

According to Cohen, believer meetings are the prime time for circulating missionary literature.

"I personally don't hand out anything," says K., a 28-year-old Jamm volunteer from Germany. "I cannot hide what I believe in, but I would never force it on anybody or give someone a pamphlet."

Cohen has a different version. "They gave me workbooks and the New Testament and said that Jesus gave his life for us and we need to give our lives to Him."

Cohen, whose parents divorced a couple of years before he started spending time at The Jamm, realizes in retrospect that he was the perfect candidate for missionary activity. "It was a very rough time in my life. I needed friends and the people at The Jamm were nice. They listened and talked to me."

The believers, he says, also offered him a place to stay at their shared boys' house. "They go to the weak people and they try to take them in."

Rubin says that Cohen's assessment is accurate. "It is very difficult to change the mind of someone who doesn't have any problems in his life. That's why they are going to lonely people or people with financial or family problems. There are a lot of people out there who are in trouble and these missionaries give them hope."

Levinson asserts that awarding hope is The Jamm's most cherished technique.

"They act nice to people who don't have someone who will listen to them at home, or who don't have a nice home," he says. "The Jamm is a nice, warm place for people who don't have a nice, warm place to go."

Rubin claims that the current economic crisis in Israel and in the capital in particular, provides the missionaries with more opportunities than usual, since many Israelis are particularly needy at this time.

"It's a business," says Rubin and emphasizes that all of the messianic congregations in Israel receive money from Christian churches abroad to help them conduct their activities. "When they are speaking with Jews, they are Jews. When they try to get money from Christians, they are Christians. Basically, they are liars."

The Jamm fits the mold. Not only does the organization have affiliates in both Franklin, Tennessee and the Netherlands, it is sponsored in part by Gratefully Grafted Ministries International, headquartered in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, which offers financial support to some 40 messianic ministries in Israel, including congregations, worship centers and "outreach programs" like The Jamm.

Says Rubin, "The Jamm aims to target youth in the street and they don't have a problem getting the money to do it from abroad."

"The Jamm is a Christian fundamentalist group and nothing more than that," adds Binyamin Kluger, head of advocacy for the anti-missionary department at Yad L'Achim.

"Why are Israeli authorities doing nothing to stop them?" asks Rivka. "I just don't understand. If the law clearly says that what they are doing is wrong, why isn't anything being done about it?

"I just try to imagine what would happen if a couple of religious Jews started trying to convert Christian boys to stop believing in Yeshua. I'm sure it wouldn't hold for one week."

She then offers one reason the Israeli justice system has neglected to deal with the issue. "Perhaps Christians in America have a very big influence here, but unless we are willing to sacrifice our own Jewish kids for the donations and tourism money of Christians, our first obligation is to protect our own youth."

A letter written by then-Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu in which he expressed his disagreemet with the 1997 Proposed Bill on the Prohibition of Inducement for Religious Conversion, supports Cohen's suggestion.

"It has come to my attention that a bill before the Israeli parliament concerning possession of missionary literature has created a stir among our many Christian friends," wrote Netanyahu in response to the private member bill proposed by then-Labor Party opposition member Nissim Zvilli and Rabbi Moshe Gafni of the Yahadut HaTorah Party, which would have made the printing, distribution and possession of missionary material a crime punishable by up to one year in prison. "I would like to assure you that this bill does not have the support of the Israeli government...the government strenuously objects to this bill and will act to ensure that it does not pass. Israel deeply values your support, and we appreciate your friendship and commitment."

The reason for the legal authorities' lack of action against missionary organizations remains obscure. In the meantime, The Jamm, which has a link on the Jerusalem Municipality website, has plans to expand its horizons to include an indoor skateboarding park on Ben Yehuda Street, a project their pamphlet describes as "a [potential] harvest field for the Lord."

"There are few cases that are as black and white as The Jamm," says Rubin. "The case is very clear. Why aren't they being properly investigated or prosecuted? It's a very good question."


TOPICS: Israel; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: messianicjews
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To: missyme

I think that we have defined the issues pretty well and I don't see how this conversation can enlighten further, or persuade, either of us.

I believe that every man has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so long as he does not impinge upon the rights of others.

You look at the world through the binary filter of damned and saved. You believe that you have a duty to stick your foot in my door and convert me, my children and my people to your religious beliefs whether we want that or not.

These are irreconcilable differences. To those of us who believe in living a moral life and respecting others, your type is insufferable. Good luck to you.


161 posted on 08/03/2004 8:54:55 AM PDT by Piranha
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To: Piranha; Zack Nguyen

Actaully, I do agree with you 100%. Evangelical Christians have been welcome in Israel because the overwhelming majority do NOT prostletyze when they are here. As such, they will continue to be welcomed and, indeed, encouraged to visit and explore their Christian roots.

Evangelical Christians who see the need to prostletyze in Israel are a small minority, but they seem to be the majority on this thread and perhaps on Free Republic. That subset of evangelical Christians is distincly unwelcome.


162 posted on 08/03/2004 8:56:56 AM PDT by anotherview
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To: anotherview

If you don't think I am a friend that's your business, if you want to compare Jesus's teachings to the cult of ISLAM then that's your cross to bear in life. You will never be able to take away Jesus from the Jewish people NEVER you can guarantee that fight will be one you will definetly loose. IN fact your loosing that battle already...

Let me know when you hear of Christian Suicide bombers, or when you see Christians stop giving money to Israel to fight the war on terrorism or when you see Christians be-heading people or persecuting people..let me know would ya?


163 posted on 08/03/2004 8:57:27 AM PDT by missyme
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To: anotherview
Oh, and I sincerely hope you DO NOT convert Muslims. You are a far more insidious enemy.

Unbelievable. You'd rather have body parts in the the streets than good jewish kids attending a BBQ put on by fundamentlists.

I fervently hope you are one of only a very few who feel this way.

164 posted on 08/03/2004 8:58:48 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Kerfuffle

"What you do not have is the right to come to my country, an Islamic state, as a missionary to try and convert Moslems. You do not have a right to come to my country and to try and destroy our faith, our culture, our way of life."

Yeah, we should apply the same standards to all people.


165 posted on 08/03/2004 8:59:30 AM PDT by followerofchrist
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To: missyme

I have seen Christians persecuting people all my life. When my father was carted off to Auschwitz another Jewish man asked his Czech collaborator captors "Why?". The answer was "for Christ".

Inquisitions, crusades, pogroms... how were these different than what Muslims do today? You prefer a different tactic today and I understand that, but you are doing the same.


166 posted on 08/03/2004 9:01:17 AM PDT by anotherview
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To: anotherview
We do not believe in "eternal damnation". That is a Christian concept.

I beg to differ on this point. You may more correctly that some modern Judaisms do not believe in eternal punishment, but it is not quite true regarding past Judaisms, nor is it correct to say it is a "Christian concept". In fact, Pharisaism (which is the historical ancestor of rabbinic Judaism) believed not only in the Resurrection of the Dead, but in the resurrection of the righteous AND unrighteous. In eternal reward in Olam Haba [Gan Eden, thw World to Come], or eternal punishment in Gehenna. Though many modern Judaisms have attempted to erase this historical fact, it is anacronistic to say this is what ALL the sages also taught. Some Talmud references: Bavli Nedrarim 39 and 40; Bavli Abodah Zarah 18; Bavli Shabbat 33 and 104; Bavli Sanhedrin 111; Bavli Bava Batra 79...

I do agree with your point that "Christianity" as practiced by the majority of the world's "Christian" population practice, has little in common with Judaism, past or present. On the other hand, Y'shua's first followers had much in common with the Pharisees and chaverim of the First Century, and until just before 70CE they had a shared religious experience in both the Temple and synagogues. There are notable Jewish scholars such as Dr. David Flusser, of blessed memory, of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem who have contributed greatly toward reconstructing the beliefs of First Century Judaisms, including the sect which followed Y'shua.

I also agree that many modern English translations of TaNaKh in "Christian Bibles" have many pagan biases in them, placed there by well-meaning translators who look at everything through 1,800 years of "Christian" anti-Semitism (example: Psalms 119 is twisted beyond recognition). This is unfortunate. I recommend any "Christian" who wants a English translation, should get a copy of JPS 1917, or "Complete Jewish Bible" if they want to see something closer to the Masor text. Best is to use a "computer Bible" and Hebrew text (Biblia Hebraica or similarly close to Stuttengard or Leningrad Codex). A caution about English dictionaries though: 'Strongs' will have biases built into the definitions - Brown-Driver-Briggs is far better and based upon the noted Jewish scholar Wilhelm Gesenius' lexicon.
167 posted on 08/03/2004 9:02:17 AM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: skeeter

I suspect my views are very common among observant Israeli Jews.

Let's put it this way: the Arab tries to kill me. You try to take everything I am away from me. What is the difference, really? My preference for the Arab is that he is an honest enemy and that makes him much easier to defend against. If I defend against you I run the risk of offending those Christians (a large majority in the U.S.) who are really my friends.

To Orthodox Jews if you convert their children those children are as dead as if an Arab blew them up. I don't believe that personally, but if you understand that you would know that I am not one of a few.

Tell me, at that BBQ, would you feed my children pork?


168 posted on 08/03/2004 9:05:08 AM PDT by anotherview
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To: anotherview

"You, like most Christians, read one small part of Jewish scripture (Tanakh, what you call the Old Testament) which has been reordered and edited and interpreted to suit Christian belief and assume you know Jewish scripture. Have you studied the Talmud? If not, how do you even begin to understand Torah from a Jewish perspective? You can't, of course. Most Christians do not understand that there is very little that Jews and Christians have in common in terms of religious belief."

Isn't the Talmud Rabbinical interpretation of the Old Testament? I have somewhat of an understanding of Jewish religion, probably greater than most Christians. I go by the New Testament and don't take the Old very literally.

Thank you for your honesty. I do have great respect for you as a person. I assure you I personally am not out to convert Jews, but if a Jew is interested in hearing what I have to say, I am happy to tell it.


169 posted on 08/03/2004 9:06:59 AM PDT by followerofchrist
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To: Kerfuffle

Ah, Pirana is just telling the truth, something we rarely see. I appreciate his honesty, even if it is harsh. He is passionate about his faith, as we are.


170 posted on 08/03/2004 9:08:49 AM PDT by followerofchrist
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To: anotherview

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT...

DO you practice the faith of JUDAISM because some people in the desert decided to create a religion and you follow the rules of Man? Of course not....

Do you commit Adultery? why not? it's not agaisnt the law
but it is agaisnt GOD's law right?

Do you honor the Sabbath? you don't have to? your not going to go to jail right? you do it because GOD commands that of you.

So when a Christian is commanded to share the GOSPEL with all people in the world you want to change the rules to suit you because it does not fit into what you believe..Sorry GOD doesn't work your way...

Million sof JEWS through-out the world have accepted Jesus Christ as the Son of GOD in fact soon you will see a Bible that comes out and has been researched for years by Jewish theologians that will give the Jewish people the hebrew scriptures from the Tanakh why Y'Shua is the Promised Messiah of Israel. Every person get ones in Israel for free. The Passion of Christ will be shown in Israel this month. You cannot stop anyone Jew or Gentile from knowing who Jesus is.

I would be more concerned about the Gay Pride Festival that is being held in Jersuslaem in 2005 if you care about there destiny I would be preaching to the Gays in Israel before they see there outcome like the ones of Soddom and Gommorah


171 posted on 08/03/2004 9:10:27 AM PDT by missyme
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To: anotherview
You try to take everything I am away from me. What is the difference, really?

One requires a choice, freely made.

Sheesh.

172 posted on 08/03/2004 9:10:43 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: followerofchrist

You like me! You really like me!!


173 posted on 08/03/2004 9:13:54 AM PDT by Piranha
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To: anotherview

Can you recognize "Wolves" in Sheeps Clothing"
Here are some CLues.
1. Adolf Hitler
2. Stalin.
3. Ceasar
4. Napolean
5. David Koresch
6. Jim Jones
7. Rev Moon
8. Charles Manson
9. Saddam Huessin
10. Arafat.

Thes are not men of GOD they hide behind the sheild of the Devil so they can Kill the masses of people they have done through-out history....


174 posted on 08/03/2004 9:16:41 AM PDT by missyme
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To: anotherview
Inquisitions, crusades, pogroms... how were these different than what Muslims do today? You prefer a different tactic today and I understand that, but you are doing the same.

I have a quick question for you.

If you were to see a fire in the back of a house and a bunch of people are having a party in the front of the house, would you hesitate to go tell the people to leave the house before the fire consumes them?

And if you did, and a few people left but the rest mocked you, would you feel hate or sorrow for those that wouldn't leave?

For some reason those who reject the Gospel of Jesus think we Christians hate them for rejecting it. They think we present it for what reason I don't know, but the reason a Christian tells others about Jesus is to save them.

Yes, we really believe that there is a fire coming to consume you. Yes, we really believe that if you follow Jesus you will be saved. No, we do not hate you if you reject it, we love you and feel a deep sorrow that you will be consumed.

Christianity teaches us about free will, about how everyone has the choice to follow Christ or not. The horrid anti-Christian activities done in Christ's name in the past rejected the idea of free will. We have not. The inquisitions, the pogroms, the forcible baptisms done in the New World are inexcusable and God will deal harshly with those involved.

But surely you are not equating those who say "Come and see, read and learn, believe and be saved" with those who would kill you if you did not convert, are you? Does a witnessing Christian have a sword in their words that force you to convert?

Pretend that you believe, really believe, that those around you who do not believe will perish. Now, is trying to save them a hateful act or a loving act?

175 posted on 08/03/2004 9:18:45 AM PDT by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: missyme

No, you are the one who is missing the point. Any Jew who accepts Jesus ceases to be a Jew.

Your religion is an anathema to mine. Your religions completely contradicts mine. Your religion, as you interpret it, is out to destroy mine.


176 posted on 08/03/2004 9:20:21 AM PDT by anotherview
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To: anotherview
When my father was carted off to Auschwitz another Jewish man asked his Czech collaborator captors "Why?". The answer was "for Christ".

I read this with a profound sense of loss. The shoah is a mark against all humanity, but particularly for those who call themselves "Christian". Not that they personally may have participated, but in that they still hold to the beliefs of those who made such digusting statements as "for Christ" even possible.

Justin Martyr in his Dialog with Trypho (150 CE):
'We too, would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath days, and in a word, all your festivals, if we were not aware of the reason why they were imposed upon you, namely,because of your sins and the hardness of heart.' The custom of circumcising the flesh, handed down from Abraham, was given to you as a distinguishing mark, to set you off from other nations and from us Christians. The purpose of this was that you and only you might suffer the afflictions that are now justly yours; that only your land be desolated, and your cities ruined by fire, that the fruits of your land be eaten by strangers before your very eyes; that not one of you be permitted to enter your city Jerusalem. Your Circumcision of the flesh is the only mark by which you can certainly be distinguished from other men……as I stated before it was by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observance of the Sabbath as a mark.'

Augustine (400 CE) in his Confessions:
How hateful to me are the enemies of your scripture! How I wish that you would slay them (the Jews) with your two-edged sword, so that there should be none to oppose your word! Gladly would I have them die to themselves and live to you!'

Men like Justin Martyr, Augustine, and Martin Luther are still regarded as great "Christian" leaders. So few "Christians" know the disgusting things believed by these men, and have no need to know them. They therefore share some responsibility for what their words did to fuel the hatred and violence against the Jewish people. Many so-called "Christians" hold to "beliefs" much like Justin Martyr expressed above, and have no clue that such thinking is not only anti-Semitic, it is an attack against the Holy One of Yisra'el Himself.

To Jews down through the ages, when they have heard such biggoted nonsense as "...by reason of your sins and the sins of your fathers that, among other precepts, God imposed upon you the observance of the Sabbath as a mark..." it was no wonder they have considered "Christians" as enemies of God and His people. How could one ever consider the blessing of Shabbat a PUNISHMENT? Exactly what Bible WAS Justin Martyr reading? Did it even contain Exodus 31 in it?
177 posted on 08/03/2004 9:27:45 AM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: anotherview

IS this what your trying to tell me.

Jesus an observant JEW and the JEWISH Apostles decided to create some PAGAN religion to destroy the JEWS and to lead the PAGAN world astray for all time??????

This what you think of GOD and his plan for human beings, the world and salvation?????


178 posted on 08/03/2004 9:27:47 AM PDT by missyme
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To: Piranha
It's the dilemma of monotheism.

By definition, a monotheist believes that his God is the best and only God. That makes His proclamations inherently universal. So do I keep the only true God to myself, or do I seek to make others aware of who He is? Which is more admirable?

179 posted on 08/03/2004 9:34:24 AM PDT by cookcounty ("NIXON sent me to Vietnam!!!" --JfK, lying about his 1968 arrival in-country UNDER PRESIDENT LBJ.)
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To: missyme

I agree with pirhana -- there is no point responding to you. Everything you ask assumes your religion is right. Everything you write is through the filter of your faith which is most definitely not mine.

Live a good life. Just stay away from me and mine.


180 posted on 08/03/2004 9:35:23 AM PDT by anotherview
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