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VAT scares me but NRST sounds like a good replacement for the IRS.

1 posted on 08/01/2004 6:08:55 PM PDT by NeoCaveman
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To: dubyaismypresident
One of the very positive potential effects of a national retail sales tax as opposed to a VAT or flat tax.
The income tax exports our jobs, rather than our products. The FairTax brings jobs home. Most importantly, U.S. exports are not burdened by the FairTax, as they are with the current income tax. So the FairTax allows U.S. exports to sell overseas for prices 22 percent lower, on average, than they do now, with similar profit margins. Lower prices sharply increase demand for U.S. exports, thereby increasing job creation in U.S. manufacturing sectors. At home, foreign imports are subject to the same FairTax rate as domestically produced goods. Not only does the FairTax put U.S. products sold here on the same tax footing as foreign imports, but the dramatic lowering of compliance costs in comparison to other countries' value-added taxes also gives U.S. products a definitive pricing advantage which foreign tax systems cannot match.

Above is from:

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/

Check it out - it would be a great thing for our country.

78 posted on 08/01/2004 6:38:31 PM PDT by Wayne07
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To: dubyaismypresident
Why not add this to your agenda Denny (I mean Congressman Hastert) while you're at it?

How Galveston Opted Out of Social Security
By Ed Myers

In south Texas, along the windswept Gulf Coast where multitudes of hurricanes have made landfall over the centuries, there are three history-filled, ahead-of-their-time counties: Galveston, Brazoria, and Matagorda.

Until the early 1980s government entities, such as cities and counties, had the right of opting out of Social Security and establishing their own retirement system. This option had been provided when the Social Security Act was passed in the thirties.

Galveston County in 1979 looked into this idea when then - County Attorney Bill Decker contacted Don Kebodeaux, highly successful Houston businessman, and asked him if he could devise a plan so that Galveston County could opt out of Social Security. At that time Social Security was on the verge of bankruptcy and no one knew what the future held. Don pondered the problem and called in his friend Rick Gornto, a leading financial expert, who was later to become his partner. These two hard-driving and foresighted businessmen, realizing the coming problems in Social Security, designed a new program for political subdivisions that would provide a retirement plan for employees that was many times better than the existing Social Security program. Satisfied with the new program, and in order to properly present and handle this program, these two Texas entrepreneurs organized several companies that became the First Financial Group.

The men from First Financial took their ideas, which they called The Alternate Plan, to Galveston County and presented them to County Judge Ray Holbrook and the Commissioners Court in 1980. When Judge Holbrook, a quiet, soft-spoken Texan, and County Attorney Bill Decker, a man dedicated to the betterment of his county, saw the wisdom and foresight of this concept they took charge and shepherded the plan through its various stages.

The beauty of the plan was simplicity itself. The 6.13 percent rate that the government had been taking out for Social Security in 1981 now would go into the pension fund for employees and would be matched by the county. Life and disability insurance were included at first to match exactly the Social Security benefits. In recent years the county increased its participation to 7.65 percent, which included payment of all premiums for life and disability insurance. The life insurance benefit for those under age 70 is 300 percent of one's annual earnings with the minimum benefit of $50,000 and a maximum of $150,000.

Many spirited debates were held throughout the county between Social Security representatives and the men from First Financial for the benefit of the county employment of 78 percent to 22 percent, the Galveston County employees endorsed the idea and the county opted out of Social Security.

The local unions fought the idea at first, and several Galveston County officials also opposed the action. As time went on and they learned more about the program, nearly all of them saw the sound judgment in this course of action. Years later Decker, by then retired, told the story of how a number of unionized county workers thanked him for his wisdom and guidance. They said at first they had serious doubts about giving up the fixed income of Social Security, but now that they were getting ready to retire they were very happy they did.

"The Alternate Plan has been a godsend for Galveston County and clearly improved employee benefits," said Judge Holbrook recently. He continued, "The 22 percent who voted against it in 1980 are all supportive now and see the many benefits of having a retirement program other than Social Security, which most employees under age forty believe will not be existing when they retire because there will not be enough workers to contribute to this pay-as-you-go system. And now no one objects to the mandatory feature which was made part of The Plan a few years after it started." Judge Holbrook, who retired in 1994 after 28 years of distinguished service, concluded his narrative by saying, "Of all the things I accomplished while county judge, setting up this retirement system for Galveston County employees is one of my proudest achievements." Now in retirement, Judge Holbrook also pointed out that after just 12 years of service under The Alternate Plan he is now receiving twice as much as he would have under Social Security.

Seeing this tremendous potential in 1982 Brazoria County followed suit and opted out of Social Security in favor of The Alternate Plan. A year later Matagorda County climbed on board.

Tolbert Newman, operations manager for the First Financial Group who handles the overall responsibility for these plans for the three counties, cites the following example of the growth that can be achieved in this Alternate Plan pension fund. If an individual is 25 years old and makes a $2,000 annual contribution for just ten years, assuming an 8 percent earnings rate, this individual will have $314,870 when he or she retires at age 65. If he works continuously for 40 years, he may well have accumulated a million dollars, depending on his contributions.

This idea began taking hold in a big way. The entrepreneurial spirit was alive and well. In a short period of time the idea spread and some 200 other counties, as well as many cities, in Texas and throughout the entire country, saw the latent possibilities of the program and were ready to become candidates to opt out and join the plan that First Financial Group had devised.

Then as these other political subdivisions began to set the wheels in motion for this farsighted change, up jumped the devil, Congress. Social Security had gone broke the year before and our legislators were now looking for ways to bail out the system. Capitol Hill had already decided to include the federal employees and then got a rude shock when it looked as though all employees of the various counties in Texas, and others throughout the country, were about to opt out of Social Security. That was a calamity it could not allow, so Congress canceled the opt-out clause in 1983. Fortunately Galveston, Brazoria, and Matagorda counties had their systems up and running and so the grandfather clause applied, and they were allowed to continue their Alternate Plan, much to the chagrin of all these other Texas counties.

The Alternate Plan that began as a fledgling, upstart employee benefit plan has stood the test of time and has shown that it can and does outperform Social Security. The plan that started in Galveston County ended the first year with a modest balance. Today, with over 5,000 employees from these three counties The Alternate Plan has grown to a very healthy and sizable portfolio. Those who retire after 20 years will receive three to four times the rate as under Social Security. This Alternate Plan is not just an isolated act of a group of responsible and dedicated Texans. There are countless other examples of other local and state government entities showing the same responsibility and initiative throughout the United States. There are now five states that are not under Social Security and have their own plans: California, Nevada, Maine, Ohio, and Colorado. In the Colorado plan they now have over $14 billion in assets. Local government entities such as police and fire departments have long handled their own retirement plans.

These plans clearly demonstrate that if left alone enterprising Americans can set up retirement systems, second to none.

The private sector, including the self--employed, will benefit from privatizing Social Security as never before. Phasing out the employer's share of the Social Security tax will, over time, return to the business community more than $169.2 billion per year. Not having to pay these FICA taxes in future years will be a tremendous boon to the business climate and the creation of untold new jobs.

Larry N. Forehand, president of the Texas Restaurant Association and founder of Casa Olé Mexican Restaurants, a fast-growing Texas restaurant chain, had this to say: "We currently pay over $1.3 million in matching Social Security taxes annually. If our company had that $1.3 million a year to invest in new locations, we could build six additional restaurants, employ an additional four hundred fifty people and add $7.2 million to the economy every year. Based on current figures it is estimated that all restaurants in Texas will save $1.2 billion per year."

Privatization will bring a win-win situation for all.

82 posted on 08/01/2004 6:47:22 PM PDT by KriegerGeist ("Only one life to live and soon it is past, and only what was done for Jesus Christ shall last")
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To: dubyaismypresident

Here is how the president could accomplish this by himself: I make a national speech and tell the people to stop paying income taxes immediately with the promist that he will reign back the IRS and pardon EVERYONE who is arrested for non-paymen then tell them about the positive things that a national sales tax would do. Congress would howl, of course, but they would have to find an alternative source of income quickly, which just so happens to be sitting in committee right now.


83 posted on 08/01/2004 6:47:49 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: dubyaismypresident

VAT scares me, too, because you just KNOW that the politicians will use it to give favortism to big business donors to give them a competitive edge. You'll never be able to keep up with just who is paying how much.


89 posted on 08/01/2004 6:50:06 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn't be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: dubyaismypresident

Sounds like the RNC is trying to round up the defectors.

A national sales tax should have been proposed years ago. It is heartbraking to know that the RNC did not propose this many moons ago in a serious fashion.


91 posted on 08/01/2004 6:51:55 PM PDT by Dont_Tread_On_Me_888
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To: dubyaismypresident

As much as I dislike the current tax system and support the NRST, I am also one of those who is taking a wait and see attitude. It would be great if W can pull it off - but let's not forget what happened to his campaign plan of privatizing a mere 2% of Social Security.

The Dems made sure that that was DOA even BEFORE it got to Congress. With lawyers being such a strong contingent of liberals (see John Edwards, D-AC [Ambulance Chaser]), anything that takes food out of their mouths and money out of their pockets will not be greeted with open arms. Presenting such an issue to the Senate (in particular) will, likely, have the effect of the Republicans declaring war on the Democrats. If tiny tommy thinks he's disappointed now, wait until this one hits the Senate floor. And lawsuits? All those lawyers will keep this tied up in the courts for decades.

Also, we can expect the leftists of every color and stripe to slither out from under their rocks and denounce the NRST as racist and giving more tax breaks to the wealthy and all of their other blather. If such an issue actually comes to pass and makes it out of the House into the Senate, it will take massive demonstrations in the streets across the country to force the Dems to vote . . . . and conservatives aren't known for massive demonstrations in the street . . . . they're too busy earning a living and supporting theirs and three other families.


93 posted on 08/01/2004 6:53:22 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Repeal CFR NOW!!)
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To: dubyaismypresident

Great idea except for one problem. The States are alredy gobbling up 8% plus. What's left to tax? If they do get it through, food and clothes and some other necessities should be exempt from sales tax.


94 posted on 08/01/2004 6:53:30 PM PDT by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Do NOT buy from junk email.)
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To: dubyaismypresident

My husband, who is a tax accountant has been preaching National Sales Tax as the only solution for years. I read him this story and he freaked. What will he do for a living? Said he would have to vote for Kerry (as a first response). Now, we have to ask ourselves, how many CPAs etc. do we have that might change their vote over this?


96 posted on 08/01/2004 6:54:59 PM PDT by tinamina
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To: dubyaismypresident

I'm not sure that I can believe this.

If true, this will be great.

However, I must remain skeptic for my own sanity.


98 posted on 08/01/2004 6:55:20 PM PDT by anobjectivist (Publically edumacated)
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To: dubyaismypresident
Get rid of the IRS?

I'll go for that! :0)

100 posted on 08/01/2004 6:57:11 PM PDT by Pippin (RE-ELECT BUSH/CHENEY............PLEASE!)
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To: dubyaismypresident
If Bush can get rid of the IRS, it will be greater than Lincoln's emancipation of the slaves -- because right now we're all slaves. A simple sales tax, ideally collected by the states so that no new bureaucracy is required, would be the way to go. In Florida, some items are exempt from the sales tax, like food. That could be built in for the "fairness" angle. A whole lot of the Congress won't like it, because at present they're really in the business of selling loopholes, but it could be done. Dynamite issue.
102 posted on 08/01/2004 6:58:36 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Since 28 Oct 1999, #26,303, over 193 threads posted, and somehow never suspended.)
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To: dubyaismypresident

If Bush can get rid of Sadam, Osama, and the IRS he will have achieved the trifecta of destroying evil in the modern world


109 posted on 08/01/2004 7:02:57 PM PDT by tophat9000
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To: dubyaismypresident
The Speaker of the House will push for replacing the nation's current tax system with a national sales tax or a value added tax, Hill sources tell DRUDGE.

National sales tax good, VAT bad.

A VAT woulf allow the government to install stealth taxes that you will pay without a clue.

110 posted on 08/01/2004 7:04:22 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help fund terrorism.)
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To: dubyaismypresident
Changing from an income tax to a spending tax midway through the game amounts to double taxation of savings. Once when you earned it in the first place, and now again when you go to spend it. We all recognize the double taxation of the death tax as inherently wrong - a massive new tax on your life savings when you do anything with them is every bit as odious.

Furthermore, no amount of juggling of the tax system is going to solve the coming Social Security and Medicare crises like Hastert says they will. The problem is that as with all pyramid schemes, the robbee:robber ratio eventually reaches a level of unfeasability. Switching Tax Plan A for Tax Plan B amounts to removing the needle from one arm and inserting it in the other.

114 posted on 08/01/2004 7:08:02 PM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: ancient_geezer; Principled; Your Nightmare; lewislynn; balrog666

Holy Crap! Dubya's on board with the FairTax!


115 posted on 08/01/2004 7:08:27 PM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: dubyaismypresident

The Republican Party continues to be the party of ideas. Something drastic needs to be done if we are going to cope with the coming Social Security and Medicare crisis.


123 posted on 08/01/2004 7:13:25 PM PDT by kabar
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To: EternalVigilance
REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS

Awesome!

124 posted on 08/01/2004 7:13:48 PM PDT by Gelato
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To: dubyaismypresident

ugh no sales tax. that would really turn me away from the GOP


131 posted on 08/01/2004 7:16:34 PM PDT by arielb
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To: dubyaismypresident

Accomplishing that would mean standing up to the Democrats, and would reqire a degree of backbone that has been sadly lacking in this administration to date. It'll never happen. Not in my lifetime.


133 posted on 08/01/2004 7:17:34 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: dubyaismypresident; All

All tax systems require reporting, collection and enforcement. Eliminate IRS? Sure, but replace it with some other organization doing the same thing.


141 posted on 08/01/2004 7:19:18 PM PDT by aculeus
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