Posted on 08/01/2004 8:07:26 AM PDT by BulletBobCo
It has been indicated by Democratic talking heads that the Vietnam military record comparison will come up again during the campaign. From open sources and my own experiences, I have developed the following comparison of the military records of President Bush and John "Fonda" Kerry.
As an aviator, a former Guardsman, a two tour Vietnam Veteran, and a Retired Army officer, I would like to know more about Senator Kerry's record. All I know is what he and his supporters say, and what is on his web site, which is incomplete. Unless he opens both his military and FBI files, all I can believe is what I know from open sources on the net, which are reflected in my comments below.
The Bush Record:
Issue: "Jumping" 500 other applicants for the TX National guard. While there may have been 500 on waiting lists, how many were willing to take more than two years out of their lives to go on active duty to undergo training on a sophisticated aircraft (F-102). There was one big exception to abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft, and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crewmembers. Because of the training required, signing up for this duty meant up to 2+ years of active duty for training alone, plus a high probability of mobilization.
Bush's service: The mission of the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG, and the airplane it possessed, the F-102, was air defense. It was focused on defending the continental United States from Soviet nuclear bombers. LT. Bush did "strip alerts" in support of this mission.
Excusal from unit: 111th records of 1970-72 and any other ANG squadron indicate pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts. The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101. Lt. Bush was advised he did not have the experience to train as an instructor in the F-101. Additionally, The US drawdown in Vietnam due to "Vietnamization" which began in 1970 returned many more experienced pilots competing for a limited number of seats. This resulted in a March 1972 DOD policy for all services which stated that pilots not in an authorized flying position were prohibited from flying. As I was in the TRADOC aviation division at this time, I remember this well.
As for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue. Lt. Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a Senate campaign. Excusals for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs. I had one such period in 1961, when my career took me away from my unit. I was placed on inactive status, and performed additional drills when I returned to have a good year.
Issue: Bush "barely" had a good year in 1973. A good year is a good year. This is a gratuitous criticism. He made up any drills needed at the end of his year.
Flight physical: Lt. Bush did not disobey lawful orders to report for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's weekend drill assembly the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves, it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of reasons. Since Lt Bush was in a prohibitive flying status, and probably realized that his flying days were over, it is conceivable that a physical was not considered a "blue chip" item. The result would have been an administrative action "grounding" him from flying status until he completed a physical. Many active duty pilots in a prohibited status routinely miss annual flight physicals. Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its date certain.
In short, Lt. Bush's service was more than honorable -- it was noble and courageous in light of what he might have been called upon to do -- "scramble" to intercept an incoming bomber with fighter escort.
Kerry: On the other hand...
We don't know much about Kerry's record, do we? Unlike the president, he has not made his entire file public; we only have his word and that of his supporters as to his "war hero" status. He should be called upon to open both his military records and his FBI file.
As a battalion adjutant in Vietnam, and the senior awards and decoration officer in the battalion, I know a bit about how awards evolve.
Kerry's Purple Hearts (PH): Kerry had been wounded three times and received three Purple Hearts. Asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it. A shrapnel wound in his left arm gave Kerry pain for years. Kerry declined a request from the Globe to sign a waiver authorizing the release of military documents that are covered under the Privacy Act and that might shed more light on the extent of the treatment Kerry needed as a result of the wounds. (The Boston Globe June 6, 2003).
Quote from the criteria for award of the Purple Heart:
"...the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record."
Who treated Lt. Kerry's wounds, and who made them a matter of record? According to Dr. Louis Letson, who treated Kerry’s first "wound" in December 1968, he treated the "wound" with a Band-Aid. Dr. Letson further states that some of Kerry s crew confided to him that they had not received any fire that night, but that the "wound" was probably the result of a fragment ricocheting from a mortar round that Kerry had fired when it struck some rocks. Dr. Letson further related that Kerry had told them "he would be the next JFK from Massachusetts.”
For a PH to be awarded, it has to be a matter of record that the injury was the "result of hostile action" (IRHA). On two occasions resulting from hostile action ( 1, lacerations resulting from a helicopter being forced down by hostile fire and 2, a piece of Plexiglas in my neck from a bullet penetrating the helicopter), I was treated in a field medic environment, and the wound was not recorded. I could have done so, but declined. On the third occasion, I was wounded along with several others in a mortar attack and taken to a field hospital where my medical records were annotated with IRHA. I only discovered that I was awarded the PH when I received the orders for it.
Navy instruction, titled 1300.39, says that a Naval officer who requires hospitalization on two separate occasions, or who receives three wounds "regardless of the nature of the wounds," can ask a superior officer to request a reassignment. The instruction makes clear the reassignment is not automatic. It says that the reassignment "will be determined after consideration of his physical classification for duty and on an individual basis." Because Kerry's wounds were not considered serious, his reassignment appears to have been made on an individual basis. Moreover, the instruction makes clear that Kerry could have asked that any reassignment be waived. The bottom line is that Kerry could have remained but he chose to seek an early transfer.
Bottom line: How did those PH get recorded and awarded? (Can you say, "Get out of Dodge"?)
Kerry's Silver Star action: While Senator Kerry has not made the official citation available, research by folks who claim to know give the following version of the action:
When Kerry's Patrol Craft Fast 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore, he hot-dogged his craft beaching it in the center of the enemy position. To his surprise, an enemy soldier sprang up from a hole not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled.
The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher.
First, any one hit by a .50 caliber round is not likely to be a threat. According to my understanding of the Rules of War, killing a wounded enemy is a war crime. Also, how did the recommendation make it up the chain of command? My suspicion is that Kerry put himself in for it. In any case, from my experience, this action is not only NOT worthy of a Silver Star, but is more appropriate to a court-martial. IMHO, it was nothing more than his attempt to turn Patrol Craft 94 into his personal "PT-109" for future political capital, as alluded to by his crew to Dr. Letson.
In any case, Kerry's post-war activity is to be condemned as it put soldiers in combat at further risk, lengthened the war, and subverted US objectives in the Vietnam Conflict. After returning home, he quit the Navy early and changed the color of his politics to become a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War. Kerry wasted no time organizing opposition in the United States against the efforts of his former buddies still ducking communist bullets back in Vietnam, cementing his liberal credentials for future political pursuits.
Kerry participated in the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation where his fellow protesters accused his fellow GIs of war crimes. (For the record, the chain of command punished any and all atrocities severely, contradictory to Kerry's assertions).
Kerry's later betrayal of American prisoners of war, his blatant disrespect for the families of our missing in action, Vietnam veterans, his continued lack of support for our soldiers in the War on Terror, his support for communist Vietnam and his waffling over the issue of use of force in Iraq proves he is a self promoting candidate who cannot be relied on to protect the best interests of the United States.
In fact, as a two-tour veteran of Vietnam and a retired Army officer, I consider him to be a traitor. He wiped out any "attaboys" he may have had from his Naval service by all the "aw shits" since.
Besides, the only military record we should be considering is the outstanding performance of President Bush as our Commander-in-Chief.
Chuck Hoskinson LTC, USArmy, Retired RVN 66-67, 70-71 CT ARNG 60-63 Army Aviator/Mideast FAO Awarded LM, DFC, BSM/2OLC, PH, AM"V", + numerous awards for meritorious service
The truth will out ~ Bump!
Oh don't post that photo without a disclaimer. It was created right here at FR as a semi joke. Kerry & Fonda were both at VVAW events, but this photo is a creation. Even though it was originally presented with a disclaimer here on FR, it got national exposure as a fraudulent photo and has damaged the credibility of real information about Kerry/Fonda connections.
As for the "shrapnel" in his leg which caused J boo-boo Kerry "years of pain", it is approximately 2 x 2 millimeter in size - i.e. about the size of this " quote sign. It was left in his leg because an incision to remove it would have caused more damage than the splinter itself. He is such a phoney.
"That's said to be a faked photo. Kerry wasn't there."
He sure was.
http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/graphics/VVAW05.jpg
Bump!
The photo in post #38 is fake, but Kerry was at the event as you indicate. There is another photo with Fonda in the foreground and Kerry sitting several rows behind her.
bttttt
http://qando.net/archives/002130.htm
This has some interesting facts exposing the "Great Liberal Lie" that Bush used family connections to jump over thousands of others to get a Texas ANG slot (kinda like the son of former Texas Senator Lloyd Bentsen?)
This is another comprehensive overview of facts:
http://nationalreview.com/york/york200402180840.asp
Also, it would be useful to educate liberals about the mission of GWB's ANG unit under its NORAD tasking (which is when GWB served most of his time)
When people deride Bush for "defending the skies of Texas", few recognize that the USA was engaged in both Vietnam AND a far larger and more deadly war- the Cold War.
Few recognize that Soviet long-range BEAR bomber/missile capable aircraft were routinely conducting missions staged out of Russian bases, that reconnoitered the Eastern Coast of the USA, and recovered in Cuba.
Sometimes the Russian bombers made their way down our eastern coastline, testing our defenses and gathering intelligence about our cities and ports- then made a final loooping approach to Cuba out over the central/western Gulf of Mexico (presumably associated with Russian General War contingency planning to mine or attack coastal ports, Gulf energy facilities, and/or the Panama Canal).
Without the ANG units sitting NORAD alert in Texas. Alabama and Florida, the US "soft underbelly" would have been fully exposed to air attacks emanating from Russia or from air attacks or air insertions of special forces infiltrations launched from Cuba.
I'm sure this is not a comprehensive threat overview, but it does ridicule the ignorant statements that the ANG pilots sitting 24/7 alert duty were merely avoiding service in a REAL war.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans
By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published February 11, 2004
A photograph of John Kerry together with Jane Fonda at an anti-Vietnam War rally in 1970 in Pennsylvania has surfaced on the Internet, angering veterans who say his association with her 34 years ago is a slap in the faces of Vietnam War veterans.
The photograph, taken at a Labor Day rally at Valley Forge, has been circulating across the Internet, particularly among veterans. It was posted Monday on the NewsMax.com Web site.
Mr. Kerry spoke at the 1970 rally, the culmination of a three-day protest hike from Moorestown, N.J., to Valley Forge, which featured a speech by Miss Fonda and a reading by Hollywood actor Donald Sutherland.
"When he stands up with Jane Fonda, someone that is so notorious and hated by veterans, and Tom Hayden, and a couple of others as well and supports their agenda," Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, California Republican, said yesterday, "it diminishes the service some of us almost gave our lives for, and the over 56,000 people that lost their lives --it slaps their families in the face."
Mr. Cunningham was the first pilot to qualify as an ace in the Vietnam War, by shooting down at least five enemy airplanes.
"I think it's his right, but it kind of upsets you," Mr. Cunningham said. "He had honorable service, but it's a shame someone would let politics rule their life, instead of their principles."
Mr. Kerry, a Navy lieutenant, commanded patrol boats on South Vietnamese rivers and was wounded three times. On his return to the United States, he turned against the war, and at the time of the Valley Forge rally, he was beginning to gain notice as one of the leaders of the organization Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
He went on, in 1984, to become a U.S. senator from Massachusetts and is now the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Mr. Kerry tells Democratic audiences at campaign appearances that he will be able to stand up to Mr. Bush on the issue. He frequently cites Mr. Bush's appearance on the deck of the carrier USS Abraham Lincoln as misleading voters.
"I know something about aircraft carriers for real," he says.
Rep. Sam Johnson, Texas Republican, who spent nearly seven years in a prisoner-of-war camp in Vietnam, said yesterday the photograph of Mr. Kerry with Miss Fonda will hurt him nevertheless.
"I think it symbolizes how two-faced he is, talking about his war reputation, which is questionable on the one hand, and then coming out against our veterans who were fighting over there on the other," Mr. Johnson said.
Mr. Johnson recalled that his North Vietnamese captors played recordings of Miss Fonda telling U.S. troops to give up the war. "Seeing this picture of Kerry with her at antiwar demonstrations in the United States just makes me want to throw up."
•Jerry Seper and Charles Hurt contributed to this report.
excellent post! Thanks for the ping Tonk!
Thanks for the Ping, Tonk!!!!:-)
Bump!
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