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To: defenderSD

Only the most adament WC defenders do not admit the gun was crap. As for the need for repairs it is in the WC interviews which describe the improperly attached scope and misaligned sights. As are the comments regarding the lack of sighting the scope in the interviews of gunshop personnel one of whom claims to have attached a scope to a rifle for LHO even though it was ordered with the scope. Nor is it clear which gun was ordered by Oswald since the one pictured in the ad is not the same length as the one shipped.

You cannot show me ONE statement by any person that claims they saw LHO shooting that gun EVER unless it is the time that an "Oswald" was shooting at someone else's targets at a gun range. Nor one shred of evidence that he EVER bought ANY ammo for it or any firearm. The bolt was VERY difficult to work. This firearm was a standing joke to the Italian soldiers armed with it who called it a "mercy rifle" because of its inaccuracy.

The biggest bunch of lies in any book I have read about this (dozens of them) was in Case Closed which has had its accuracy challenged and corrected in Case Reopened.

But it really gets bad when people try and tell me with a straight face that the violent slimeball mafia associate, Jack Ruby, killed LHO because he cared for Jackie. Mobsters HATED JFK and are the most likely force behind his killing and Ruby had been sent down from Chicago to organize mob interests in Dallas. This was why he was so close to the police that he had free run of the Police station Nov. 22-4. How did HE know the correct name of the organization Oswald was alledgedly working with when the District Attorney did not?

No one can trace the rifle getting to New Orleans or FROM New Orleans. All descriptions of LHO moving the bag (supposedly containing the rifle) into the TBD indicate that it was NOT the rifle since they agree that the package was shorter than the longest piece of it disassembled. No oil on bag, statements by guy in charge of paper at TBD says (per WC) that LHO never got it there as was claimed. Nor did anyone see him taking a bag to the Paine's home Nov. 21.

Oswald did not dislike JFK and admired him to some extent. He stated the truth that removing the president would only bring an even more anti-Castroite to power, LBJ. The total lack of a motive for LHO is one of the weakest links in the WC case. What could make less sense than to kill a big wheel for your own glory then refuse to admit you did it?

One cannot even get the smallest details of this event to make sense when viewed from the lone nut perspective. And one of the strangest is the purchase of a cheap PoS rifle through the mails (thus leaving a clear trail to the purchaser) rather than a BETTER and CHEAPER gun from any of hundreds of shops in Texas with NO easy trail. Nor can ANY witness show that LHO picked up this order from the P.O. since he was at work when the pickup was made far from the PO. There isn't even a signature which is routine when picking up packages. (All this is from the WC report and exhibits.)

If there was just ONE piece of clear and unambiguous evidence that LHO did it I would be happy to see it. It is also very interesting to observe that Marina does not support her early testimony and now does not believe Lee did the deed. Much of the supposedly damning info came from her.


84 posted on 07/26/2004 2:02:50 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies: foreign and domestic RATmedia agree Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Only the most adament WC defenders do not admit the gun was crap. As for the need for repairs it is in the WC interviews which describe the improperly attached scope and misaligned sights.

The scope was removed and reinstalled prior to the test-firing (they were checking the weapon for prints). That would tend to destroy any boresighting.

86 posted on 07/26/2004 2:49:19 PM PDT by Poohbah ("Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden)
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To: justshutupandtakeit

Idiotic. There is plenty of evidence against Oswald. The conspiracy junk is off the wall!!


90 posted on 07/26/2004 3:11:20 PM PDT by veronica (Hate-triotism, the religion of leftists, liberals, anti-semites, and other cranks...)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
"One cannot even get the smallest details of this event to make sense when viewed from the lone nut perspective."

Well you have to keep in mind that many details of an assassination done by a lone nut will not make sense, because it was done by an irrational nut. It's crucial to keep this in mind when you analyze the WC report. Only a nut would order an inferior, more expensive gun by mail order instead of buying a better gun at a gun shop. Only a nut would fire at the President from his own workplace instead of taking some time off and firing from another location. So if you doubt the WC report because Oswald's actions don't make sense, you're saying that the actions of a crazy person should still be rational. This is not a valid approach and premise for analyzing the information about the JFK asassination.

I was in Dealy Plaza last March, and clearly the best shot for an assassin was from the wall behind the grassy knoll, and the getaway on foot would be faster than from the TBD. And yet numerous witnesses saw Oswald firing from the TBD. So there's another irrational decision by LHO to shoot from the TBD. There's ample evidence that LHO fired and hit Kennedy and Connelly from the TBD, but it's impossible to prove a negative and rule out other shots fired from the grassy knoll or other buildings. Personally, I though Posner made a very strong case for Oswald having fired from the TBD, but Posner was too quick to rule out shots fired from other locations, and he wasted ink in lengthy efforts to discredit conspiracy theorists. I'll have to take another look at his book tonight, see what he says about the quality of the gun, and evaluate his facts and reasoning.

92 posted on 07/26/2004 3:20:13 PM PDT by defenderSD (The number of people who lie about space aliens for $ far exceeds the number of aliens on earth.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
And one of the strangest is the purchase of a cheap PoS rifle through the mails (thus leaving a clear trail to the purchaser) rather than a BETTER and CHEAPER gun from any of hundreds of shops in Texas with NO easy trail.

Cheaper than $12.78? Man there were some Rifle bargains available in Dallas in '63.

Nor is it clear which gun was ordered by Oswald since the one pictured in the ad is not the same length as the one shipped.

You pay $12.78 including postage, are you really going to bitch if they send you a 36" carbine instead of the 40" rifle illustrated in the ad, if you even notice or recall which version the ad illustrated?

96 posted on 07/26/2004 3:42:38 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("Despise not the jester. Often he is the only one speaking the truth")
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To: justshutupandtakeit
If there was just ONE piece of clear and unambiguous evidence that LHO did it I would be happy to see it.

See my post with the pretty pictures. That, and several witnesses saw LHO in that very window and identified him, plus the three men in the room under him heard him take the three shots and rack the bolt action twice between them (and made statements BEFORE the rifle was publicly identified as a bolt-action). There's your clear and unambiguous evidence -- three shots fired from that window, the injuries to JFK and Connally are mathematically consistent with shots from that window (and few other places, none of the plausible), and the great majority of "earwitnesses" stated that they heard three shots. QED right there, although there's even more evidence.

The biggest bunch of lies in any book I have read about this (dozens of them) was in Case Closed which has had its accuracy challenged and corrected in Case Reopened.

LOL! I've read Case Reopened, it's an exercise in hand-waving, loony claims long discredited, false claims about what Posner actually says, and a failure to address most of the evidence in the book.

But I understand why conspiracy nuts try so hard to dismiss Posner's book: before I read it, I had NO IDEA of the *vast* and *overwhelming* amount of evidence for the "Oswald did it" conclusion, and had no idea how badly the conspiracy theorists twisted truth, ignored indisputable evidence torpedoing their theories, or based their conclusions on isolated things taken out of context (or the self-contradictory statements of a few of the more "imaginative" people who were in the Plaza that day -- or implausibly claimed they had been).

Any alternate conspiracy theory has to, a minimum, account for the encyclopedic amount of primary evidence that Posner brings together in his book, and not just dismiss it in toto by screaming, "lies, all lies!"

You cannot show me ONE statement by any person that claims they saw LHO shooting that gun EVER unless it is the time that an "Oswald" was shooting at someone else's targets at a gun range.

For pete's sake, just how ignorant (or brainwashed by the conspiracy books) are you? There were *several* witnesses who testified in that regard, including Howard Brennan's testimony. Brennan saw Oswald in that window, firing a rifle, provided many details which proved accurately (including the presence of the black men in the window directly below Oswald's), and identified Oswald in a police lineup as the man he had seen in the window. Are you unaware of all this, are you just having selective amnesia about inconvenient facts for your conspiracy theory, or are you just trying to mislead everyone on this thread?

Nor one shred of evidence that he EVER bought ANY ammo for it or any firearm.

Oswald went hunting frequently -- is it your contention he stole all his ammo, or just that it magically materialized?

130 posted on 07/30/2004 12:32:25 AM PDT by Ichneumon ("...she might as well have been a space alien." - Bill Clinton, on Hillary, "My Life", p. 182)
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